Biorhythms for Carolina @Virginia: Post-Game Discussion

I apologize if this has already been discussed but to me the big issue during Coach Davis' tenure is that very often the team comes out flat - like they don't seem motivated at the beginning of the game - I've never coached so I'm not sure how you fix that but to me it seems to be a recurring issue
I do feel like over the past few years, we have had a tendency to either dig ourselves into deep holes that we have to get out of or lose sizable leads later in the game. It’s far from being every game, but more frequent than in prior years.
 
I do feel like over the past few years, we have had a tendency to either dig ourselves into deep holes that we have to get out of or lose sizable leads later in the game. It’s far from being every game, but more frequent than in prior years.
I think it's a fair criticism. We seem to play our best ball down 15 or so. This was particularly true last year. Full court press seems to create energy. I also wish we did more to get Caleb involved on offense early. He tends to get hot and stay hot.
 
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I do feel like over the past few years, we have had a tendency to either dig ourselves into deep holes that we have to get out of or lose sizable leads later in the game. It’s far from being every game, but more frequent than in prior years.
I can't speak to the actuality of that. My memory isn't that good nor am I that dedicated a student of the game. One thing that has happened to all teams is that the overall talent has gotten better as the value of playing basketball for money has increased. That's pure economics. That's led to more colleges getting serious about recruiting and having more good players to split among more places. That doesn't mean the rich don't still get richer but it does mean that the used to be easy games aren't so easy and there's a lot of people we haven't heard of that can put up points in a hurry. It wouldn't surprise me if that doesn't make for streakier games.

Anyone know if someone has actually looked at this? I wouldn't know where to start. Most of the above is off the top of my head so it's not like I've put a lot of thought into it.
 
I can't speak to the actuality of that. My memory isn't that good nor am I that dedicated a student of the game. One thing that has happened to all teams is that the overall talent has gotten better as the value of playing basketball for money has increased. That's pure economics. That's led to more colleges getting serious about recruiting and having more good players to split among more places. That doesn't mean the rich don't still get richer but it does mean that the used to be easy games aren't so easy and there's a lot of people we haven't heard of that can put up points in a hurry. It wouldn't surprise me if that doesn't make for streakier games.

Anyone know if someone has actually looked at this? I wouldn't know where to start. Most of the above is off the top of my head so it's not like I've put a lot of thought into it.
Has overall talent gotten better? I can certainly see it based on raw or potential talent, but I’m not so sure about overall talent. It used to be that not only did players with elite talent stay past their freshmen year, but many stayed in college through their senior year. In any event, more extremely talented players used to multiple years of college ball.

Now, not only do players with elite talent leave after one year, but players who show that they have raw or potential talent, even if they weren’t anywhere close to being stars on the college level, will leave after one year.

Now, I could certainly see the faster revolving door of talent coupled with lesser-talented upperclassmen (relative to the potential talent of one-and-dones) having more prevalent roles on teams contribute to streakiness within games.
 
But Carolina's defense was ranked 17th before January 1. The defense was awful starting with SMU, and it still isn't back to where it was or where it needs to be, but you posted that seemingly to highlight that Scheyer was good at coaching and Coach Davis wasn't. I'm pointing out that the defense was very good before Jan 1. It was very good before Jan 1 because of coaching. It's not been good since because of execution, unless you think that Coach Davis took a good scheme that was working well and changed it or coached the players to not execute it the same way. IMO, this is on the players, not the coaches.
The defense was bad against FSU, too, they just missed a bunch of wide open shots.

Since Trimble’s return, we’ve had one of the best offenses and one of the worst defenses in the country.

And the coach gets credit and blame for everything that happens on the floor. If a team does not execute well, that is an example of poor coaching - especially when it happens repeatedly for an extended period of time.
 
Has overall talent gotten better? I can certainly see it based on raw or potential talent, but I’m not so sure about overall talent. It used to be that not only did players with elite talent stay past their freshmen year, but many stayed in college through their senior year. In any event, more extremely talented players used to multiple years of college ball.

Now, not only do players with elite talent leave after one year, but players who show that they have raw or potential talent, even if they weren’t anywhere close to being stars on the college level, will leave after one year.

Now, I could certainly see the faster revolving door of talent coupled with lesser-talented upperclassmen (relative to the potential talent of one-and-dones) having more prevalent roles on teams contribute to streakiness within games.
As I said, I haven't put this together very well. Just the increased numbers of foreign players has increased the overall talent level, imo. And, except for those that go directly to the pros, we still get that talent but in a rawer form. When you add that one of the unintended consequences of the whole portal thing is that late bloomers get to move to places where they are needed for their maturity and end up getting chances they otherwise might not have gotten. I know the best college teams aren't as good on the whole but for many reasons the difference between the 1st and 100th best teams now are less that 1st and 40th in the 80s as best as I can tell.
 
The defense was bad against FSU, too, they just missed a bunch of wide open shots.

Since Trimble’s return, we’ve had one of the best offenses and one of the worst defenses in the country.

And the coach gets credit and blame for everything that happens on the floor. If a team does not execute well, that is an example of poor coaching - especially when it happens repeatedly for an extended period of time.
Are the players not accountable for their effort and performance?
 
Are the players not accountable for their effort and performance?
Is the coach not accountable for getting them to play with effort and making sure the team has the best possible gameplan with the players he has to give them the best chance to win?

Everything with you is the players aren't trying hard enough.
 
Re: slow starts. It was defintely true last year. I don't remember that being the case other years in particular

This year they started slow vs Kansas, Cal, and Virginia before going on massive runs

Not entirely sure what to make of it. It does seem like defensive lapses happening more regularly in those slow starts
 
Are the players not accountable for their effort and performance?
The coach is responsible for everything that happens on the floor. Everything.

Players are accountable, too. But at the end of the day, the coach vs. player debate is not helpful. The coach is the one recruiting those players. He is the one mentoring those players. He is the one doing film review with those players. He is the one responsible for identifying and fixing mistakes.

Did you ever notice how Tony Bennet’s players always knew where to be on the floor defensively? It is because he repped the defense repeatedly and made sure the players knew what they were doing.
 
Is the coach not accountable for getting them to play with effort and making sure the team has the best possible gameplan with the players he has to give them the best chance to win?

Everything with you is the players aren't trying hard enough.
They are the ones on the court. Who else can do it? Are you suggesting shock collars to get their attention? No gameplan survives lack of effort and if pride in yourself and your school doesn't do it, then coaching won't do it either. Coaching is to help you learn how and what to do. The rest is about the player stepping up and being responsible. That was true when it was an "amateur" game and it's damned sure true now if you're taking money.
 
Did you ever notice how Tony Bennet’s players always knew where to be on the floor defensively? It is because he repped the defense repeatedly and made sure the players knew what they were doing.

Yeah, I think it is more than a fair observation of HD teams, and probably my biggest criticism of him as coach

That his teams do not play good, consistently sound defense, with any regularity, for whatever reason

We have 4.5 seasons of results. I don't think it's purely scheme or personnel related. It's been a bit of both at times
 
Seth getting injured was a major blow to the development of this team. Putting together a team from a group of guys who have never played a game together takes time. Taking one of our top players out of the mix for all of Dec, having the group start to come together, then reinserting him for 30+ minutes in Jan is going to cause some defensive breakdowns. So much of D is knowing what each of your teammates is going to do before he does it.

I still think our team will be stronger for it come Feb from the experience bench players got while he was out, but we were bound to have a bumpy Jan.
 
Speaking generally of coaching vs. players (not as it specifically relates to HD/UNC), I think there are certain things you look at and can judge whether it’s on the coach or the players. For example, on offense, are the right players getting good looks but failing to execute? If that’s the case, it seems that the coach is likely doing a good job but that the players are coming up short. If, on the other hand, the right guys are failing to get good looks, and that occurs on a fairly consistent basis, it’s likely more on the coaching.

As for defense, poor defense on a fairly consistent basis is generally the sign of one of two things, poor coaching or inferior talent. Obviously talented players can be lazy on defense, but if that’s a consistent problem, the coach bears some responsibility there.
 
Yeah, I think it is more than a fair observation of HD teams, and probably my biggest criticism of him as coach

That his teams do not play good, consistently sound defense, with any regularity, for whatever reason

We have 4.5 seasons of results. I don't think it's purely scheme or personnel related. It's been a bit of both at times
I do agree that teaching D is not his strong suit. I would LOVE to see HD swap out one of the current assistants for Jackie Manuel...
 
Coaching 18-22 year millionaires has to be a difficult job.

It's not easy or even possible to have every player fully locked in every practice or every game. The best coaches are able to achieve this the most often.

Maybe Hubert is more focused on building better people than maxing out basketball potential and this leaves some meat on the bone when it comes to W/L outcomes.

Again, I think the difficulty with this situation is that Hubert has underachieved UNC expectations but not crashed and burned.

He's also a respected, well-liked former star player under Dean Smith. His uncle is a UNC legend. He embodies the Carolina Way. So firing him is not just a business decision it's deeper than that.
 
Speaking generally of coaching vs. players (not as it specifically relates to HD/UNC), I think there are certain things you look at and can judge whether it’s on the coach or the players. For example, on offense, are the right players getting good looks but failing to execute? If that’s the case, it seems that the coach is likely doing a good job but that the players are coming up short. If, on the other hand, the right guys are failing to get good looks, and that occurs on a fairly consistent basis, it’s likely more on the coaching.

As for defense, poor defense on a fairly consistent basis is generally the sign of one of two things, poor coaching or inferior talent. Obviously talented players can be lazy on defense, but if that’s a consistent problem, the coach bears some responsibility there.
Getting players to buy into D is harder now in the transfer portal era with coaches not having a stick any more. Especially for coaches like HD who is on the hot seat. It's not like in Roy's day when he could sit a talented player on the bench or refuse to start him... and when fans complained, he could just throw out a "dad gummit," ignore them, and go about his coaching business.
 
The thing about HD is that the PTB decided it was more important to keep it in the family than to hire an already proven top-tier coach. What we're seeing now is exactly what should have been expected. He was not my choice when we made the hire. But once they decided to go down this path, IMO we have to support him to figure things out.

It's pretty crappy to hire a coach you know will have a learning curve, then beat the crap out of him for having a learning curve. It's not easy going from an assistant to being "the man." And it's freaking near impossible on a stage like UNC in the best of times... never mind having the world completely turned upside down with NIL and the transfer portal.

I get people not being happy with the current state of things. I'm not happy. It's not what we as UNC fans (rightfully) expect. But the is what the PTB decided they wanted. So from my perspective, we give HD our support until they decide it's over. It's not like he could say no when your role model and mentor picks you.

If he was half-assing it, I'd be pretty darn ticked. But there's nothing going wrong now due to lack of effort. He's just on a learning curve in a place where learning curves are not considered acceptable.
 
Not sure how it benefits blue bloods. It dilutes brand and replaces it with money. See Indiana in football. Portal gives power to the players.
UNC not only one struggling. Kentucky. Kansas. I can't explain dook except we all know that money is meaningless there. They give $4 mil to a QB knowing that Wallace wade will still be half empty.
I said after last season that Hubert would be given chance to build roster and we will see what he does with it. Well he did and story still being written. He got us Caleb BTW.
Let season play out. I do think he is growing as a coach. The second half yesterday was very dean smith like.

WWDD?
Blue Bloods have more money and it's easier for players who have achieved at lower levels to transfer to attractive programs for more money and exposure... assuming the pitch is right.
 
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