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I’m enjoying watching this years team D but we are better when it’s Jarin or Powell on the floor rather than Luka.

It’s an interesting question on the switching. Do you gain more fighting through screens and keeping better matchups than fluid switching that gives you Veesaer on a quick guard, or Kyan on a big. I’m not so sure. This team talks better than several recent vintages, which is key to switching. And we’re getting impressive results with this scheme.
 
Geisterfahrer said:
I’m enjoying watching this years team D but we are better when it’s Jarin or Powell on the floor rather than Luka.

It’s an interesting question on the switching. Do you gain more fighting through screens and keeping better matchups than fluid switching that gives you Veesaer on a quick guard, or Kyan on a big. I’m not so sure. This team talks better than several recent vintages, which is key to switching. And we’re getting impressive results with this scheme.
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I suspect it’s better to hedge and fight through screens, but easier/quicker to teach switching - which is a big deal when you have full roster turnover every season.
 
Geisterfahrer said:
I’m enjoying watching this years team D but we are better when it’s Jarin or Powell on the floor rather than Luka.

It’s an interesting question on the switching. Do you gain more fighting through screens and keeping better matchups than fluid switching that gives you Veesaer on a quick guard, or Kyan on a big. I’m not so sure. This team talks better than several recent vintages, which is key to switching. And we’re getting impressive results with this scheme.
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I like fighting through screen s. I never played, but I suspect the mindset required to fight through screens is the same mindset required to gut out wins against tough opponents. Might as well have everyone on the same page from the get go.
 
Geisterfahrer said:
I’m enjoying watching this years team D but we are better when it’s Jarin or Powell on the floor rather than Luka.

It’s an interesting question on the switching. Do you gain more fighting through screens and keeping better matchups than fluid switching that gives you Veesaer on a quick guard, or Kyan on a big. I’m not so sure. This team talks better than several recent vintages, which is key to switching. And we’re getting impressive results with this scheme.
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All the teams today switching on screens wouldn't know what to do if an offense actually used screens off the ball. The only screens today are all on ball screens.
 
stankeylegjones said:
In a nutshell, HD/staff are far too much running sets, in leads to stagnant offense, bad shots, bad decisions. This team is far better running freelance.
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This is the sort of thing that annoys me about sports fans. I guarantee you that HD is well aware of the teams' strengths and weaknesses in the offense. He also has far more information than you do -- not only practice and other behind the scenes info, but a full broken down game tape plus analytics.

Sets make it easier to get certain guys involved and to pick on defenders. For all we know, the team looks better running freelance when it's a change of pace; if it was the primary offense, they would do worse. Or some other explanation. But I just don't believe that you are noticing something HD doesn't.
 
superrific said:
This is the sort of thing that annoys me about sports fans. I guarantee you that HD is well aware of the teams' strengths and weaknesses in the offense. He also has far more information than you do -- not only practice and other behind the scenes info, but a full broken down game tape plus analytics.

Sets make it easier to get certain guys involved and to pick on defenders. For all we know, the team looks better running freelance when it's a change of pace; if it was the primary offense, they would do worse. Or some other explanation. But I just don't believe that you are noticing something HD doesn't.
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I’m not questioning if HD is unaware or uninformed. The issue is fit, not knowledge. Over multiple seasons now, we’ve seen the same pattern: when UNC plays with freedom, pace, and early reads, the offense looks natural and dangerous, while when it leans heavily on sets it bogs down.

That’s where overcoaching becomes a problem. When players are thinking about running the action instead of attacking advantages, everything slows down. Under HD, the stagnant stretches tend to look the same year after year. We see late-clock possessions, hesitant drives, and forced shots after the play stalls.

With this roster in particular, the offense consistently improves when players are allowed to read and react. Decisions happen earlier, spacing improves organically, and shots come in rhythm. The “change of pace” argument only works if this were occasional. When the same effect shows up season after season, it suggests something structural.

Sets have value, but too much structure has repeatedly muted UNC’s offense under HD. This team plays best when the coach trusts the players more and scripts the offense less.
 
superrific said:
This is the sort of thing that annoys me about sports fans. I guarantee you that HD is well aware of the teams' strengths and weaknesses in the offense. He also has far more information than you do -- not only practice and other behind the scenes info, but a full broken down game tape plus analytics.

Sets make it easier to get certain guys involved and to pick on defenders. For all we know, the team looks better running freelance when it's a change of pace; if it was the primary offense, they would do worse. Or some other explanation. But I just don't believe that you are noticing something HD doesn't.
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I'm with you Super. It is hard for a fan to make specific coaching critiques. I can criticize Hubert for not calling a TO with 37 seconds left in the first half as tactical matter (call back to strategy vs tactics debate), but claiming that Hubert would be a better coach if he ran less set plays or switched less on screens is to suggest that Hubert hasn't considered those strategies, which seems preposterous given his experience and mentoring.
 
Calheel said:
I'm with you Super. It is hard for a fan to make specific coaching critiques. I can criticize Hubert for not calling a TO with 37 seconds left in the first half as tactical matter (call back to strategy vs tactics debate), but claiming that Hubert would be a better coach if he ran less set plays or switched less on screens is to suggest that Hubert hasn't considered those strategies, which seems preposterous given his experience and mentoring.
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Some coaches base what they do on the players they have. Some have a system they run no matter what kind of players they have. It seems to me Hubert has a system he runs and hasn't really changed the offense and defense he uses since he has been coaching UNC.
 
stankeylegjones said:
I’m not questioning if HD is unaware or uninformed. The issue is fit, not knowledge. Over multiple seasons now, we’ve seen the same pattern: when UNC plays with freedom, pace, and early reads, the offense looks natural and dangerous, while when it leans heavily on sets it bogs down.

That’s where overcoaching becomes a problem. When players are thinking about running the action instead of attacking advantages, everything slows down. Under HD, the stagnant stretches tend to look the same year after year. We see late-clock possessions, hesitant drives, and forced shots after the play stalls.

With this roster in particular, the offense consistently improves when players are allowed to read and react. Decisions happen earlier, spacing improves organically, and shots come in rhythm. The “change of pace” argument only works if this were occasional. When the same effect shows up season after season, it suggests something structural.

Sets have value, but too much structure has repeatedly muted UNC’s offense under HD. This team plays best when the coach trusts the players more and scripts the offense less.
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UNC, whether under Dean Smith, Bill Guthridge, Roy Williams, or Hubert Davis, is much more efficient in the first 5-10 seconds of the shot clock than it is in Seconds 20-30. The defense isn’t set in those early seconds. A good big such as a Sheed or Worthy or Kupchak or Bobby Jones or Perkins or Jamison or May or Hansbrough or Veesaar has run to the rim.
 
Peppers49 said:
Trimble is who is as a player at this point. Evans and Bogavac are the ones that need to start making more 3s to pull their weight. Maybe Dixon starts getting more time and helps fill that need too.

It’s doable, but if this team is really going to contend this season I think they have to find more shooting somewhere.
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Agreed. We need 7-8 3’s combined a game from Luka, Evans, Dixon, Powell and Stevenson. That seems totally reasonable but has been hit per miss so far.
 
Zoo_View said:
UNC, whether under Dean Smith, Bill Guthridge, Roy Williams, or Hubert Davis, is much more efficient in the first 5-10 seconds of the shot clock than it is in Seconds 20-30. The defense isn’t set in those early seconds. A good big such as a Sheed or Worthy or Kupchak or Bobby Jones or Perkins or Jamison or May or Hansbrough or Veesaar has run to the rim.
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Precisely why slowing it down to run a set is not the best idea.
 
Zoo_View said:
Hubert’s team, this team, runs to the rim.

They run sets after the rim-run doesn’t succeed.
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Not so much. They definitely do not run anything at all like Roy’s teams. It’s been too long and I was too young to remember any of Dean’s teams prior to the early 90s. They don’t run like them either. In fact, HD recently talked about how he wants them to push it more than they are doing. (But, keep in mind, this is something he says they are going to do each year, “run,” which they never do, because he’s too reliant on controlled possessions.)

For reference, currently Carolina ranks 199th in possessions per game. (UVA ranks 200th). Currently they rank 140th in fast-break points per game. (UVA ranks 114th.)
 
stankeylegjones said:
Not so much. They definitely do not run anything at all like Roy’s teams. It’s been too long and I was too young to remember any of Dean’s teams prior to the early 90s. They don’t run like them either. In fact, HD recently talked about how he wants them to push it more than they are doing. (But, keep in mind, this is something he says they are going to do each year, “run,” which they never do, because he’s too reliant on controlled possessions.)

For reference, currently Carolina ranks 199th in possessions per game. (UVA ranks 200th). Currently they rank 140th in fast-break points per game. (UVA ranks 114th.)
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Not disputing all that you're saying but I doubt if there is more than 2-3 other teams besides us that the other team slows the ball down more. Possessions are a cooperative number in large part and pace of the game affects a lot of those numbers. I'd have to look at the differentials for it to mean much.
 
finesse said:
Not disputing all that you're saying but I doubt if there is more than 2-3 other teams besides us that the other team slows the ball down more. Possessions are a cooperative number in large part and pace of the game affects a lot of those numbers. I'd have to look at the differentials for it to mean much.
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If you can figure out how to measure that, I'd be very interested in seeing it - and very interested in hearing how you're quantifying it.

HD's teams are clearly not know for up-tempo style of play compared with Roy's teams. So, I'd argue that Roy's opponents tried to slow it down more against them. Roy's teams still averaged more possessions per game, even when the shot clock was 35 seconds, and fast-break points per game.
 
stankeylegjones said:
If you can figure out how to measure that, I'd be very interested in seeing it - and very interested in hearing how you're quantifying it.

HD's teams are clearly not know for up-tempo style of play compared with Roy's teams. So, I'd argue that Roy's opponents tried to slow it down more against them. Roy's teams still averaged more possessions per game, even when the shot clock was 35 seconds, and fast-break points per game.
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No small part of it was that Roy mostly a fuckload more talent differential and guards like Felton, Lawson and Marshall. Davis was left with a mismatched team in a time when deep pockets has spread out the available talent and the portal makes great teams transient. We're never going to have the talent advantage that were here for the number of years Roy had them. This is not the same game and we don't have the same talent advantage and we don't have the talent we get for as long.

Hell, the only team that consistently gets that kind of talent in those amounts is Duke and they can't keep them. They also haven't won a national championship with all of the talent since 2015, in large part because of that.
 
finesse said:
No small part of it was that Roy mostly a fuckload more talent differential and guards like Felton, Lawson and Marshall. Davis was left with a mismatched team in a time when deep pockets has spread out the available talent and the portal makes great teams transient. We're never going to have the talent advantage that were here for the number of years Roy had them. This is not the same game and we don't have the same talent advantage and we don't have the talent we get for as long.

Hell, the only team that consistently gets that kind of talent in those amounts is Duke and they can't keep them. They also haven't won a national championship with all of the talent since 2015, in large part because of that.
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I agree about talent, being a major reason why Roy always pushed for higher possession games - talent wins out in the long run.

My comment was to point out that there are ways to not get slowed down (too much, at least) even with the opponent trying to slow you down. Roy's teams showed that it was possible, because they still played faster than any of HD's teams, even with teams trying to slow them down more.

Also, Roy emphasized offensive rebounding, leading to more offensive rebounds and thus more possessions.
 
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stankeylegjones said:
I agree about talent.

My comment was to point out that there are ways to not get slowed down (too much, at least) even with the opponent trying to slow you down. Roy's teams showed that it was possible, because they still played faster than any of HD's teams, even with teams trying to slow them down more.
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Yes but you are putting almost all that difference on the coaching instead of just how good our players were, especially in contrast to the competition. As an old coach said, "It's not just the x's and o's, it's also the Jimmie's and Joes". Take the best two players off any of Hubert's teams, based on performance instead of potential, and compare them to the best two off any of Roy's. Better yet, how many point guards did Roy have that you would choose over Hubert's?
 
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