California Fires - Politics of Blame & Trump water claims

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I don't post or comment or whatever here much these days. But this Callatoroy guy....good grief.

How do you all handle it?

More extremist/ignorance?
More extremist/dishonesty?
Maybe just some trolly combo deal?

If I'm being unkind or too personal, please feel free to delete my comment here. Whatever. But Callatory strikes me as pretty serious distillation of MAGA deliberate, arrogant ignorant talk.

It's nothing new. I've been following this stuff since the breakthrough era -- early-to-mid 1990s -- of right-wing propaganda talk radio. Had a go-round or two long ago with prominent old-ZZL conservatives on the topic. Again, Callatory just seems like a strong representative of the bottom of the whole thing in its hideous MAGA form.
 
nycfan said:
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Let no opportunity to spread right-wing bigotry and propaganda be wasted. If only straight white guys had been in charge then none of this would ever have happened. We've got to stop all of this incompetent minority and female DEI hiring and get white guys back in charge of everything - they'll know exactly what to do, just like Dear Leader!
 
ole howard1 said:
I don't post or comment or whatever here much these days. But this Callatoroy guy....good grief.

How do you all handle it?

More extremist/ignorance?
More extremist/dishonesty?
Maybe just some trolly combo deal?

If I'm being unkind or too personal, please feel free to delete my comment here. Whatever. But Callatory strikes me as pretty serious distillation of MAGA deliberate, arrogant ignorant talk.

It's nothing new. I've been following this stuff since the breakthrough era -- early-to-mid 1990s -- of right-wing propaganda talk radio. Had a go-round or two long ago with prominent old-ZZL conservatives on the topic. Again, Callatory just seems like a strong representative of the bottom of the whole thing in its hideous MAGA form.
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I’ve had him on Super Ignore for a couple of weeks now because I found myself responding more and more negatively to him and didn’t want to to turn the board into IC Part 2. But unless everyone does the same, he’ll still infect the board with his MAGA poison as long as he has an audience to get pissed off about it. His only goal here is to troll the libs. He’s not here for any actual dialogue.
 
And sadly, there are many people that will just believe Trump... That there's a watershed that extends from Canada into California...
 
Callatoroy said:
Apples vs oranges. The two aren’t even close to being related. Each should be evaluated independently. Looking for whataboutism is already knowing it isn’t going to go well. And much of it is purely politics. From how the states handle insurance to how funding is allocated. Those are political decisions. Firefighters making 200k a year, people being fired for not taking Covid shots, what is prioritized, infrastructure maintenance. All political decisions that aren’t related to what another state does for a completely different kind of disaster.
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Yet I don’t see you complaining about Trump’s comparison of California to Austria or Finland. Hmmm. 🤔
 
WaynetheDrain said:
I’ve had him on Super Ignore for a couple of weeks now because I found myself responding more and more negatively to him and didn’t want to to turn the board into IC Part 2. But unless everyone does the same, he’ll still infect the board with his MAGA poison as long as he has an audience to get pissed off about it. His only goal here is to troll the libs. He’s not here for any actual dialogue.
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I've been responsible for a lot of the board pollution with him and I'll stop. I actually enjoyed conversing with him on the other board prior to the attempted assassination. He showed a level of intelligence and appreciation for nuance that is not common with the conservatives who post here, and he repeatedly stated he hated Trump and would not support him. That shooting seems to have changed everything. I think trying to defend this nocturnal emission of a political movement must kill brain cells or something. I won't ignore him, but I won't be responding to his toddler-level arguments any further.
 
nycfan said:


Trump in 2020:

“You go to Austria,” he said, “you go to Finland, you go to many different countries, and they don’t have — I was talking to a head of a major country, and he said, ‘We’re a forest nation. We consider ourself a forest nation.’ This was in Europe. I said, ‘That’s a beautiful term.’

“He said, ‘We have trees that are far more explosive…” – he meant “explosive” in terms of fire – ‘but we have trees that are more explosive they have in California, and we don’t have any problem because we manage our forests.’”


… "You know, In Europe they have forest cities,” he told the hosts [of Fox & Friends]. “You look at, you look at countries, Austria, you look at so many countries, they live in the forest, they’re considered forest cities, so many of them.

“And they don't have fires like this, and they have more explosive trees. They have trees that will catch easier. But they maintain their fire, they have an expression, they ‘thin the fuel’, the fuel is what’s on the ground, the leaves, the trees that fall, they’re dry, they’re like a matchstick.”

… In 2018, when California faced another serious fire season, he claimed to have discussed “raking and cleaning” with the president of Finland, who later said he had no such recollection. …”

www.the-independent.com

Trump denies climate crisis cause fires and says Austrians live in ‘forest cities’

President has for years fixated on the importance of raking forest floors while ignoring the effects of climate change
www.the-independent.com www.the-independent.com
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Yes, and as everyone knows, the climate in Austria and California are exactly the same
 
This is an article I felt was helpful to provide context about the fires, including by making clear how different from other previous wildfires this particular situation was - such that some experts say we should be thinking of it more as an urban fire problem than a wildfire problem:

slate.com

This Isn’t About Wildfires Anymore

The great urban fire has returned.
slate.com slate.com

Trump and others have predictably rushed to fit these fires into the paradigm of previous (mostly rural) California wildfires, but it really just doesn't fit here.
 

An Offline L.A. Water Reservoir Has Repeatedly Needed Repairs​

Officials are investigating why the Santa Ynez Reservoir is offline and empty, as firefighters try to contain the nearby Pacific Palisades blaze​


GIFT LINK —> https://www.wsj.com/us-news/climate...04?st=dBhcpA&reflink=mobilewebshare_permalink

“… California Gov. Gavin Newsom on Friday ordered an independent investigation of LADWP’s response to the blazes, saying the reports of problems with water pressure in some local fire hydrants and the water supply from the Santa Ynez Reservoir “are deeply troubling to me and the community.”

… The reservoir’s condition is emerging as one potential problem area but isn’t the only one. The water problems in Pacific Palisades probably stemmed from the way the community’s water system was designed, said Dave Pedersen, general manager of the Las Virgenes Municipal Water District in nearby Calabasas. Water tanks situated above the homes there were likely drawn down because so many fire engines were tapping into the hydrants, he said, adding he doesn’t have direct information on that.

Like most communities in hilly terrain surrounding the Los Angeles Basin, the tanks in Pacific Palisades use gravity to feed water to homes during the day and are refilled at night with pumps, he said. But with so many fire engines tapping into hydrants during the fire, the tanks were probably drawn down and couldn’t automatically refill quickly—leaving dry hydrants, Pedersen said.

… Many of the water systems on the outskirts of Los Angeles were put in place in the 1960s and 1970s when catastrophic wildfires, made worse by drought and climate change, were a less significant threat.

“A public water system isn’t designed to fight a wildfire,” Pedersen said, adding that the investments and upgrades needed to achieve that would be costly and challenging to achieve. …”
 
rodoheel said:
This is an article I felt was helpful to provide context about the fires, including by making clear how different from other previous wildfires this particular situation was - such that some experts say we should be thinking of it more as an urban fire problem than a wildfire problem:

slate.com

This Isn’t About Wildfires Anymore

The great urban fire has returned.
slate.com slate.com

Trump and others have predictably rushed to fit these fires into the paradigm of previous (mostly rural) California wildfires, but it really just doesn't fit here.
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And, as usual, the problem is that Trump's vivid lies - vastly amplified and spread by the now powerful right-wing propaganda machine that sprawls across legacy and social media networks - is what most people hear, not the truth in articles like this. And to date the truth and the people spreading it about many topics are simply overwhelmed by the ability of lies and false information and fringe theories to spread like a plague all over social media and legacy media. Whenever I get on social media I'm struck by how many people still believe Trump (and other Republican's) lies about Biden & FEMA deliberately not helping Republican areas in western NC following Helene and FEMA giving more money to illegal immigrants than to Helene victims. It's still pervasive, and not even our government, apparently, has any idea of how to stop it or overcome it.
 
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Mulberry Heel said:
Whenever I get on social media I'm struck by how many people still believe Trump (and other Republican's) lies about Biden & FEMA deliberately not helping Republican areas in western NC following Helene and FEMA giving more money to illegal immigrants than to Helene victims. It's still pervasive, and not even our government, apparently, has any idea of how to stop it or overcome it.
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They believe what they want to believe.

Deep down, every MAGA is a both-sider. They know their guy is a disaster. So they have to seize on lies about the other side. They have to pretend that liberals are terrible people who hate America, since that's who they support.
 
nycfan said:
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You re-post a lot of things (without comment) from Twitter and TruthSocial that come straight out of Trump’s or other MAGA’s (metaphorical) mouths.

I just wanted to point that out in case there were some uninformed posters who thought you only post things from left-wing media.
 
nycfan said:

the tanks in Pacific Palisades use gravity to feed water to homes during the day and are refilled at night with pumps, he said. But with so many fire engines tapping into hydrants during the fire, the tanks were probably drawn down and couldn’t automatically refill quickly—leaving dry hydrants, Pedersen said.​


… Many of the water systems on the outskirts of Los Angeles were put in place in the 1960s and 1970s when catastrophic wildfires, made worse by drought and climate change, were a less significant threat.

“A public water system isn’t designed to fight a wildfire,” Pedersen said, adding that the investments and upgrades needed to achieve that would be costly and challenging to achieve. …”
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This is why I kept asking the board jabronis if they understood gravity. They apparently do not.
 
rodoheel said:
This is an article I felt was helpful to provide context about the fires, including by making clear how different from other previous wildfires this particular situation was - such that some experts say we should be thinking of it more as an urban fire problem than a wildfire problem:

slate.com

This Isn’t About Wildfires Anymore

The great urban fire has returned.
slate.com slate.com
Click to expand...
Interesting article. Architecture is certainly an answer, but it takes a long time to rotate housing stock. I want to learn more about how Tokyo constructed their fire break ring of 13-story apartments in a band around the city. I imagine that attempting that in the US will cause significant eminent domain conflicts.

As an aside, this issue is the perfect rebuttal to libertarianism. You can build a fire-safe house and manage the land impeccably. But if your neighbors don't do the same, your efforts are likely in vain. This is why you need regulatory structures.
 
Huh? said:
As an aside, this issue is the perfect rebuttal to libertarianism. You can build a fire-safe house and manage the land impeccably. But if your neighbors don't do the same, your efforts are likely in vain. This is why you need regulatory structures.
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This is an instance of the more general problem that libertarianism has no answer for: externalities. Positive or negative.
 
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