California Fires - Politics of Blame & Trump water claims

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Callatoroy said:
You know his game. Why are you so triggered by it. I'm guessing he was talking about when he offered to help CA move some water one time and newsome told him to get lost. Again, after 4 years in office and 4 years running for office you act like you don't know what to expect.
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Because tens of millions of Americans firmly believe all the nonsense he utters. WE know his “game,” MAGA doesn’t think its a game.
And YOU don’t understand his “game” is the authoritarian playbook. You laugh it off, blame us for TDS when we understand his “game” much better than you do.
 
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Ramrouser said:
The beauty is that this debate (who to blame?) is going to play out in real time over the coming weeks and months. Let's see if the local residents, particularly the ones who lost everything, are receptive to Bass, Newsome and the other local officials simply blaming this on "climate," Trump or "we-couldn't-possibly- predicted-this type of natural disaster." Lots of wealthy and important people impacted by this including celebrities - who have access to the media. I predict there's going to be major pushback from these victims and the officials are, for once, going to have to account for their actions and policies and have to answer tough questions from the public and press.

Fast forward 6 months from now, you're going to have tremendous frustration of the public in dealing with California's notoriously rigid permitting and zoning regulations which will slow down, if not halt, these residents from rebuilding their homes.
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What do you think would have prevented these fires or prevented them from spreading? It's always entertaining to hear conservatives rail about taxes and getting the government out of our lives then something like this happens and it's all "why didn't the city spend an additional $200 million on massive upgrades to the city's water infrastructure"?
 
Healing said:
Fwiw, the “debating amongst ourselves” has unequivocally taught me more about political philosophy, law, political action strategies, etiology of the moment, and history, since the formation of this board seven-ish months ago, than I’ve learned in ten years from ttump supporters.

When your movement is fueled by pathological insecurity, narcissism, and hate (and billionaire overlords) truth is rarely on your side; thus, magas have fabricated a system of self affirming delusions and in doing so have rendered their weight in debate (hell, in cursory discourse) that of a helium balloon. In near literal terms, I don’t take what a maga says at face value. I assume they are lying or ignorant or machinating. What I learn from them, on this board, is merely the often hateful, unoriginal right-wing propaganda screed du jour.

I can learn what these maga trolls have to offer by spending 10 mins on various reddit subs, about once a week, or take 5 min to scan ttump’s verbal equivalent of shitting in his hand and rubbing it on his face, in the ttump catch-all thread (bc all maga does is parrot him). And to be clear, if we had dyed in the wool magas who debated positions from an evidentiary standpoint AND stood up to cross exam, I’d agree with your position. However, EVERY SINGLE maga eventually turns troll bc
1. It’s exceedingly rare for the evidence to favor their positions
2. Trump has taught them, and/or affirmed their nature, to never admit they’re wrong
3. as result of #2, when their [ahem], shall we say, facile positions get deconstructed they dig deeper and deeper into the fetid pit of right-wing fabrication, AND when that doesn’t work, their personalities and marching orders demand that they disengage from factual debate and turn to straw men, red herrings, and outright trolling.

Everyone has their reason for engaging maga trolls. While that engagement is my least preferred part of this board, and even captures me at times, this board is a lot of things to a lot of people. However, I contend our resident magas aren’t offering anything that scanning ttump’s belligerent tweets don’t offer, aside from confirmation of their very predictable incorporation of talking points and marching orders.
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Upvote for "machinating," another word that needs to be in heavier rotation (along with machinations)...
 
No question natural disasters occur and there's only so much you can do about it. In this case, the unusually high winds - which changed directions repeatedly spreading new fires in all directions. But, is it your contention that the local and state officials handled matters appropriately? They had several days to prepare and it's not like this is the first wildfire they've had to fight in SoCal. My point is that the local residents will decide whom to hold to account and what changes need to be made.
 
Ramrouser said:
No question natural disasters occur and there's only so much you can do about it. In this case, the unusually high winds - which changed directions repeatedly spreading new fires in all directions. But, is it your contention that the local and state officials handled matters appropriately? They had several days to prepare and it's not like this is the first wildfire they've had to fight in SoCal. My point is that the local residents will decide whom to hold to account and what changes need to be made.
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The "point" currently being made apparently is that now - while the fires are raging, people are fleeing and brave civil servants are putting their lives on the line fighting this thing - is the appropriate time to cast political blame and do a pre-mortem review all the direct and indirect causes ( including DEI for christ's sakes) instead of fully concentrating our efforts on putting the fires out. Your "point" is bullshit and you have no shame.
 
Ramrouser said:
No question natural disasters occur and there's only so much you can do about it. In this case, the unusually high winds - which changed directions repeatedly spreading new fires in all directions. But, is it your contention that the local and state officials handled matters appropriately? They had several days to prepare and it's not like this is the first wildfire they've had to fight in SoCal. My point is that the local residents will decide whom to hold to account and what changes need to be made.
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What do you think they should have done differently? Please be specific?

And while you're at it, what should the local leaders in rural western NC have done differently before Helene?
 
Huh? said:
The "point" currently being made apparently is that now - while the fires are raging, people are fleeing and brave civil servants are putting their lives on the line fighting this thing - is the appropriate time to cast political blame and do a pre-mortem review all the direct and indirect causes ( including DEI for christ's sakes) instead of fully concentrating our efforts on putting the fires out. Your "point" is bullshit and you have no shame.
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I haven't made any specific criticisms about these events (not even DEI) while the fires are occurring - I've barely posted on this thread. My broader point is that it appears to be a systems wide failure on multiple levels that will be reviewed and addressed post fire. If you think everything has been handled perfectly, that's fine.
 
Ramrouser said:
No question natural disasters occur and there's only so much you can do about it. In this case, the unusually high winds - which changed directions repeatedly spreading new fires in all directions. But, is it your contention that the local and state officials handled matters appropriately? They had several days to prepare and it's not like this is the first wildfire they've had to fight in SoCal. My point is that the local residents will decide whom to hold to account and what changes need to be made.
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The idea that any of us can sit here from thousands of miles away and decide right now, while the fires are still raging, what state and local officials could have done differently, and whether they acted "appropriately," is insane. This is part of the problem with modern society generally, and MAGA world specifically: we are so overwhelmed with real-time information (good and bad) that people have this constant urge to rush to judgment and assign blame when in reality it will take weeks and months to gather the information needed to fully assess what went wrong and what could have helped. Many people simply don't have the patience or discernment to wait for further information before heading online to vomit takes everywhere, especially given that modern social media (and, increasingly, modern politics) incentivizes constant screeching invective far more than sober and nuanced judgment.
 
Ramrouser said:
I haven't made any specific criticisms about these events (not even DEI) while the fires are occurring - I've barely posted on this thread. My broader point is that it appears to be a systems wide failure on multiple levels that will be reviewed and addressed post fire. If you think everything has been handled perfectly, that's fine.
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Well, good for you, but the presidential candidate you supported and who's about to take office again has been non-stop blaming state and local officials from the opposing party since this started. That's part of the major issue - the Republican party has been entirely taken over by people who substitute constant blame and fearmongering and grievance in place of any semblance of governance or judgment. And instead of criticizing that reaction, people like you continually reward it.

Can you imagine if Biden was tweeting as hurricanes made landfall in Florida "this is all the fault of crazy Ron DeSantis who has ruined the great state of Florida"? Of course you can't. It would be rightfully castigated as counterproductive, harmful, and plain old bad leadership. if we ever want to get back to a place where people in this country have some shared sense of national civic duty and pride, then voters are going to have to make clear that they want leaders who want to actually help Americans rather than screeching dipshits who want to shitpost and treat our national politics like an episode of the Jerry Springer show.
 
Ramrouser said:
No question natural disasters occur and there's only so much you can do about it. In this case, the unusually high winds - which changed directions repeatedly spreading new fires in all directions. But, is it your contention that the local and state officials handled matters appropriately? They had several days to prepare and it's not like this is the first wildfire they've had to fight in SoCal. My point is that the local residents will decide whom to hold to account and what changes need to be made.
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Your critique has been duly noted, just as it was during Greg Abott’s mishandling and poor preparation for the power grid failure years ago in Texas.

I mean, I’m assuming you were all over IC at the time lighting into him as well, since you’re such a fair and balanced individual.
 
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The other aspect of the blame game from MAGA is that they bray non-stop about government overreach if any official tries to do anything to preemptively solve problems. Put in a pre-pandemic plan to deal with it? Nazi's trying to end freedom! Create ordinances requiring appropriate water usage and building and maintenance standards? Communists who want to control our land! But heaven forbid something bad happens, then it's well on that issue the government should have done something!
 
WaynetheDrain said:
Your critique has been duly noted, just as it was during Jim Abott’s mishandling and poor preparation for the power grid failure years ago in Texas.

I mean, I’m assuming you were all over IC at the time lighting into him as well, since you’re such a fair and balanced individual.
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Jim Abbott was a one-handed baseball pitcher. Greg Abbott is the Texas governor to whom you referring.

;)
 
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