California Fires - Politics of Blame & Trump water claims

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rodoheel said:
The idea that any of us can sit here from thousands of miles away and decide right now, while the fires are still raging, what state and local officials could have done differently, and whether they acted "appropriately," is insane. This is part of the problem with modern society generally, and MAGA world specifically: we are so overwhelmed with real-time information (good and bad) that people have this constant urge to rush to judgment and assign blame when in reality it will take weeks and months to gather the information needed to fully assess what went wrong and what could have helped. Many people simply don't have the patience or discernment to wait for further information before heading online to vomit takes everywhere, especially given that modern social media (and, increasingly, modern politics) incentivizes constant screeching invective far more than sober and nuanced judgment.
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Well said. I'll just add that MAGA tends to make this even more difficult by:

1. Carving out entire areas of potential contribution, such as climate change;
2. Defending the only president or president-elect in modern US history to blame political leaders of the other party during times of natural disaster, and
3. Spreading enormous amounts of disinformation that require massive valuable resources to correct.

I can't help but think of MAGA as the world's most refined example of a systemic saboteur. The goal is not always to blow up the railroad bridge. Sometimes it's to pull resources away from the maintenance of the railroad bridge to prevent the constant rhetorical assaults on the railroad bridge. Either way, it makes it much easier for the railroad bridge to be destroyed. I will never forgive Trump and his supporters for creating the environment in which we cannot trust our railroad bridges to keep functioning. It's one thing to defend against threats from overseas. It's a whole different thing to defend against saboteurs in our own country.
 
WaynetheDrain said:
Your critique has been duly noted, just as it was during Jim Abott’s mishandling and poor preparation for the power grid failure years ago in Texas.

I mean, I’m assuming you were all over IC at the time lighting into him as well, since you’re such a fair and balanced individual.
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Actually, I did fault Texas for the grid failure and it was personal to me given my daughter lives in Dallas and was without power for 2 weeks.
 
lawtig02 said:
What do you think they should have done differently? Please be specific?

And while you're at it, what should the local leaders in rural western NC have done differently before Helene?
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Bump, since Ramrouser is apparently in the mood to critique GOP leadership for their local infrastructure failures.
 
Ramrouser said:
Actually, I did fault Texas for the grid failure and it was personal to me given my daughter lives in Dallas and was without power for 2 weeks.
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Good to know. Surely your daughter and other Texas voters have brought the local and state officials to account and remediation efforts are under way.

Oh wait, all of the officials are still in office and there are few remediation efforts to the grid underway because... regulation = socialism? We're all engaged in a national round robin of magical thinking until the next cold snap / hurricane / fire diverts our gnat-like attention.
 
rodoheel said:
The idea that any of us can sit here from thousands of miles away and decide right now, while the fires are still raging, what state and local officials could have done differently, and whether they acted "appropriately," is insane. This is part of the problem with modern society generally, and MAGA world specifically: we are so overwhelmed with real-time information (good and bad) that people have this constant urge to rush to judgment and assign blame when in reality it will take weeks and months to gather the information needed to fully assess what went wrong and what could have helped. Many people simply don't have the patience or discernment to wait for further information before heading online to vomit takes everywhere, especially given that modern social media (and, increasingly, modern politics) incentivizes constant screeching invective far more than sober and nuanced judgment.
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Other than singling out MAGA for criticism, you make valid points. I would remind everyone that all of this (politicization of natural disasters) started with Katrina and the relentless, unfair criticism of W ("Bush hates black people") while the rescue missions and cleanup was occurring. Initially, Blanco and Nagin were given a pass.
 
lawtig02 said:
Bump, since Ramrouser is apparently in the mood to critique GOP leadership for their local infrastructure failures.
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Honestly, I don't know but I know FEMA isn't stepping up for WNC. WNC also includes Asheville so it's not all GOP failures.
 
Ramrouser said:
Honestly, I don't know but I know FEMA isn't stepping up for WNC. WNC also includes Asheville so it's not all GOP failures.
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What's your basis of knowledge that FEMA is not stepping up for WNC? Because I'm up here today, and I spend a lot of time here, and I see FEMA everywhere. What are you seeing in Buckhead that causes you to believe otherwise?
 
Ramrouser said:
Other than singling out MAGA for criticism, you make valid points. I would remind everyone that all of this (politicization of natural disasters) started with Katrina and the relentless, unfair criticism of W ("Bush hates black people") while the rescue missions and cleanup was occurring. Initially, Blanco and Nagin were given a pass.
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You’re comparing a comment made by rapper Kanye West to the comments made by the current President-elect.
 
lawtig02 said:
What's your basis of knowledge that FEMA is not stepping up for WNC? Because I'm up here today, and I spend a lot of time here, and I see FEMA everywhere. What are you seeing in Buckhead that causes you to believe otherwise?
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Oh snap, are you getting caught in this snow?
 
So have their ever been more haunting prophetic retrospective lyrics ever?

Then the chilly winds blew down
Across the desert
Through the canyons of the coast
To the Malibu
Where the pretty people play
Hungry for power
To light their neon way
Give them things to do
Some rich men came and raped the land
Nobody caught 'em
Put up a bunch of ugly boxes
And Jesus people bought 'em
And they called it paradise
The place to be
They watched the hazy sun
Sinking in the sea
You can leave it all behind
Sail to Lahaina
Just like the missionaries did
So many years ago
They even brought a neon sign
"Jesus is coming"
Brought the white man's burden down
Brought the white man's reign
Who will provide the grand design?
What is yours and what is mine?
'Cause there is no more new frontier
We have got to make it here
We satisfy our endless needs
And justify our bloody deeds
In the name of destiny
And in the name of God
And you can see them there
On Sunday morning
Stand up and sing about
What it's like up there
They call it paradise
I don't know why
You call someplace paradise
Kiss it goodbye
 
First, for the record, I was born and grew up in WNC so I have a frame of reference.

I read where individuals' FEMA hotel stays have ended and they're forced to sleep in their cars in freezing weather. I read where people are still living on their properties in tents with portable gas heaters. I read about the lack of FEMA trailers. Twitter is full of these stories and pleas for help. I refuse to believe its all "misinformation." Are you saying none of this is true?
 
Ramrouser said:
First, for the record, I was born and grew up in WNC so I have a frame of reference.

I read where individuals' FEMA hotel stays have ended and they're forced to sleep in their cars in freezing weather. I read where people are still living on their properties in tents with portable gas heaters. I read about the lack of FEMA trailers. Twitter is full of these stories and pleas for help. I refuse to believe its all "misinformation." Are you saying none of this is true?
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More than half in WNC hotels through FEMA program to be forced out this weekend​


www.bpr.org

More than half in WNC hotels through FEMA program to be forced out this weekend

A FEMA review found 3,500 families living in government-paid-for hotel rooms weren't eligible for the hotel program and must leave by Jan. 11.
www.bpr.org www.bpr.org

FEMA says the reasons a person might be ineligible for ongoing hotel assistance include:

  • Their home is considered habitable.
  • They declined an inspection of their residence to verify it was damaged.
  • FEMA has been unable to contact the applicant to update their housing needs, despite multiple attempts.
FEMA said representatives have tried to contact people as many as eight times before labeling them ineligible.

"It’s important for survivors to keep in touch with FEMA, provide regular updates on housing status and update contact information so their recovery process is not delayed," FEMA spokesperson wrote in an email to BPR.
 
Ramrouser said:
Other than singling out MAGA for criticism, you make valid points. I would remind everyone that all of this (politicization of natural disasters) started with Katrina and the relentless, unfair criticism of W ("Bush hates black people") while the rescue missions and cleanup was occurring. Initially, Blanco and Nagin were given a pass.
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There is no equivalence at all between Kanye (now, of course, a MAGA diehard), who was then a random rapper, making that sort of criticism, and the literal leader of the Republican Party doing it while compelling all of his most powerful subordinates to do the same.

That is the fundamental difference with Trump and MAGA, and has been from the beginning. in MAGA world, the inmates run the asylum, going all the way up to the very top. The modern Republican Party is dominated by its most autocratic and most aggressive elements, which is far different from the Democrats.
 
Ramrouser said:
First, for the record, I was born and grew up in WNC so I have a frame of reference.

I read where individuals' FEMA hotel stays have ended and they're forced to sleep in their cars in freezing weather. I read where people are still living on their properties in tents with portable gas heaters. I read about the lack of FEMA trailers. Twitter is full of these stories and pleas for help. I refuse to believe its all "misinformation." Are you saying none of this is true?
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So I'm confused. Are we for ruthless American self bootstrapping or large scale government assistance programs for people down on their luck

Or do you get to pick and choose which you want to support?
 
Ramrouser said:
First, for the record, I was born and grew up in WNC so I have a frame of reference.

I read where individuals' FEMA hotel stays have ended and they're forced to sleep in their cars in freezing weather. I read where people are still living on their properties in tents with portable gas heaters. I read about the lack of FEMA trailers. Twitter is full of these stories and pleas for help. I refuse to believe its all "misinformation." Are you saying none of this is true?
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Here's an article about it:

wlos.com

Thousands in Western NC may lose FEMA housing aid as winter storm looms

Thousands of Western North Carolina families may be without housing as the winter storm approaches.
wlos.com wlos.com

If FEMA is incorrectly applying the regulations and ending support for people who should be continuing to receive assistance, then that would be a problem. But if FEMA is correctly applying the rules that govern the program, perhaps your complaint should be to legislators to (1) increase FEMA's funding (rather than constantly seeking to decrease it, as Republicans have done) and/or (2) change the rules around how long aid can be provided?
 
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