California Fires - Politics of Blame & Trump water claims

[ZZLPHeels]

The response was perfectly valid. It is not actually the fire fighter's job to carry a person out of a fire.

I stopped reading after this nonsense. It is 100% the firefighter’s job to carry a person out of a fire if they find one. Full stop, no exceptions. You have no idea what you are talking about. That comment by the LAFD Chief is disgusting to those in the profession.

ETA: The ironic thing is that this should have literally nothing to do with gender or sexual orientation. I know quite a few female firefighters who are in excellent shape, are excellent at their job and who outwork many of the men. They are pissed at this comment too. A better comment from this person would have been, “We have high standards at the LAFD and anyone who gets hired and makes it through the challenging academy and probationary period has proven that they are up to those standards. I have no doubt that they can perform any task asked of them.” Instead, she pivoted to a weird victim blaming that implied that people in house fires don’t deserve to be saved for some reason.

 

[Calheel]

I stopped reading after this nonsense. It is 100% the firefighter’s job to carry a person out of a fire if they find one. Full stop, no exceptions. You have no idea what you are talking about. That comment by the LAFD Chief is disgusting to those in the profession.

Is everyone in the army responsible for shooting bullets at the other army?

Fire departments have specialization. Not everyone does the running into buildings part of the job. Don't be dense.

 

[superrific]

I stopped reading after this nonsense. It is 100% the firefighter’s job to carry a person out of a fire if they find one. Full stop, no exceptions. You have no idea what you are talking about. That comment by the LAFD Chief is disgusting to those in the profession.

ETA: The ironic thing is that this should have literally nothing to do with gender or sexual orientation. I know quite a few female firefighters who are in excellent shape, are excellent at their job and who outwork many of the men. They are pissed at this comment too. A better comment from this person would have been, “We have high standards at the LAFD and anyone who gets hired and makes it through the challenging academy and probationary period has proven that they are up to those standards. I have no doubt that they can perform any task asked of them.” Instead, she pivoted to a weird victim blaming that implied that people in house fires don’t deserve to be saved for some reason.

You don't know quite a few female firefighters. Do you think we're fucking stupid?

It is not 100% the firefighter's job to carry a person out of the fire. YOU don't know what you're talking about. It's like a football game. It is actually not always an offensive player's job to block a defender in his path, because the play calls for that offensive player to be in a certain place. The same is true for firefighting. There is a plan. They don't just run in with firehoses and spray everything down (hint: that causes lots of smoke). From what I understand, and this is based on some reading about NYC firefighting many years ago, some fire fighters are "scouts." Their job is to get in and around quickly to find out how many people there are and what needs to be done. Then the other firefighters move in. That might be changing with better surveillance equipment, but it was how NYC fire department would approach big fires.

 

[ZZLPHeels]

You don't know quite a few female firefighters. Do you think we're fucking stupid?

It is not 100% the firefighter's job to carry a person out of the fire. YOU don't know what you're talking about. It's like a football game. It is actually not always an offensive player's job to block a defender in his path, because the play calls for that offensive player to be in a certain place. The same is true for firefighting. There is a plan. They don't just run in with firehoses and spray everything down (hint: that causes lots of smoke). From what I understand, and this is based on some reading about NYC firefighting many years ago, some fire fighters are "scouts." Their job is to get in and around quickly to find out how many people there are and what needs to be done. Then the other firefighters move in. That might be changing with better surveillance equipment, but it was how NYC fire department would approach big fires.

You know I have been a full-time, career firefighter for well over a decade right? You are wrong about everything you just posted. Please stop embarrassing yourself. Literally nothing you stated is accurate.

Your role on the fireground is largely determined by your order of arrival. The first two actions that need to take place are typically fire attack (suppression) and search. If you are on Engine 2, and you are assigned primary search, you can't tell the IC "well actually sir, we have a special hire today who doesn't feel comfortable searching so we're just going to chill outside on this one." Absofuckinglutely not. In no universe.

Also, spraying water doesn't cause smoke. The fire causes smoke. Water causes steam. Steam aids in extinguishment. Extinguishment means the fire is going out. Sometimes steam can burn people inside, but we account for that by our stream pattern (straight stream or smoothbore nozzles don't generate as much steam as a wide pattern on a fog nozzle). And yes, most of the time we literally do run straight in the front door with a hose and punch that fire straight in the teeth. While we are doing that, other crews are searching the building for victims. And if they find a victim, they are pulling that victim out.

 

[Carolina Fever]

Wonder what the MAGA crowd thinks of this.

 

[ZZLPHeels]

Is everyone in the army responsible for shooting bullets at the other army?

Fire departments have specialization. Not everyone does the running into buildings part of the job. Don't be dense.

Read my reply to super. Every firefighter should be capable of removing a victim from a burning building. That's part of the job. There are admin roles, sure. But there are not special fire engines that people who are not physically capable of being firefighters are specially assigned to unless you are in volunteerland in BFE.

If you are operating in a structure fire as a firefighter you need to be able to do your job. What the LAFD Chief said was wrong and was disgusting to every single firefighter I know.

 

[WaynetheDrain]

What’s that smell? It smells like…BoTime.

 

[ZZLPHeels]

What’s that smell? It smells like…BoTime.

Is that supposed to be a secret? No one told me.

 

[superrific]

You know I have been a full-time, career firefighter for well over a decade right? You are wrong about everything you just posted. Please stop embarrassing yourself. Literally nothing you stated is accurate.

1. What's wrong, motherfucker? You don't like it when an amateur questions your professional expertise? Hmm. Maybe think about that next time you argue with me about law or economics. The idea that I'm embarrassing myself is hilarious. I did, in one post, what you and your kind do every single day on every single thread. In the future, every single time you try to tell me my business, I will call your ass out.

2. The problem with lying, which you do on occasion, is that it's hard for people to know when to take you seriously. Maybe if you want people to believe you, you should try to be less FOS elsewhere. I am actually going to reserve judgment on whether to believe you about this shit. You reap what you sow.

3. WHERE are you a fire fighter? Are you a fire fighter in NYC? In LA? Is it possible that you don't know everything there is to know about putting out BIG fires? After all, you see, I read an article that contradicts what you are saying. And according to you, reading an article about something is akin to expertise about it and it gives me the right to question everything you say. That's how it works, right?

And it wasn't just any article, either. It was a NEWSPAPER article. Highest authority there is.

4. All that said, you are correct that I don't know about firefighting. I am, in fact, relying on an article I read. It is not a solid basis for knowledge. And I won't claim otherwise. And I won't argue with you either, because I don't know.

Just remember this the next time you go spouting off half-cocked about something you know nothing about.

 

[Calheel]

You know I have been a full-time, career firefighter for well over a decade right? You are wrong about everything you just posted. Please stop embarrassing yourself. Literally nothing you stated is accurate.

Your role on the fireground is largely determined by your order of arrival. The first two actions that need to take place are typically fire attack (suppression) and search. If you are on Engine 2, and you are assigned primary search, you can't tell the IC "well actually sir, we have a special hire today who doesn't feel comfortable searching so we're just going to chill outside on this one." Absofuckinglutely not. In no universe.

Also, spraying water doesn't cause smoke. The fire causes smoke. Water causes steam. Steam aids in extinguishment. Extinguishment means the fire is going out. Sometimes steam can burn people inside, but we account for that by our stream pattern (straight stream or smoothbore nozzles don't generate as much steam as a wide pattern on a fog nozzle). And yes, most of the time we literally do run straight in the front door with a hose and punch that fire straight in the teeth. While we are doing that, other crews are searching the building for victims. And if they find a victim, they are pulling that victim out.

That is not how you fight wildfires in California. The vast majority of the fire fighting work is in the wilderness, where there are no houses. Once the fire gets to structures, they are mostly doing containment, not house rescues.

 

[superrific]

You know I have been a full-time, career firefighter for well over a decade right? You are wrong about everything you just posted. Please stop embarrassing yourself. Literally nothing you stated is accurate.

According to this article on Quora, you are wrong. We know, of course, that Quora is an excellent source of information.

How do firefighters usually go about rescuing people in a house fire? Is there any typical process that they go through every time?

Answer (1 of 6): The best I can do with this is tell you how I did it - both times I found and pulled someone from a fire, that were alive when I got them out but would have died if they stayed in. The first fire was at about 2AM in Feb or Mar of 1976 (IIRC). We pulled up at the end of the drive...

www.quora.com

 

[ZZLPHeels]

1. What's wrong, motherfucker? You don't like it when an amateur questions your professional expertise? Hmm. Maybe think about that next time you argue with me about law or economics. The idea that I'm embarrassing myself is hilarious. I did, in one post, what you and your kind do every single day on every single thread. In the future, every single time you try to tell me my business, I will call your ass out.

2. The problem with lying, which you do on occasion, is that it's hard for people to know when to take you seriously. Maybe if you want people to believe you, you should try to be less FOS elsewhere. I am actually going to reserve judgment on whether to believe you about this shit. You reap what you sow.

3. WHERE are you a fire fighter? Are you a fire fighter in NYC? In LA? Is it possible that you don't know everything there is to know about putting out BIG fires? After all, you see, I read an article that contradicts what you are saying. And according to you, reading an article about something is akin to expertise about it and it gives me the right to question everything you say. That's how it works, right?

And it wasn't just any article, either. It was a NEWSPAPER article. Highest authority there is.

4. All that said, you are correct that I don't know about firefighting. I am, in fact, relying on an article I read. It is not a solid basis for knowledge. And I won't claim otherwise. And I won't argue with you either, because I don't know.

Just remember this the next time you go spouting off half-cocked about something you know nothing about.

Sounds like a hit a nerve. It is OK to simply say, "I was wrong." You should try it. As should the LAFD Deputy Chief.

 

[ZZLPHeels]

According to this article on Quora, you are wrong. We know, of course, that Quora is an excellent source of information.

How do firefighters usually go about rescuing people in a house fire? Is there any typical process that they go through every time?

Answer (1 of 6): The best I can do with this is tell you how I did it - both times I found and pulled someone from a fire, that were alive when I got them out but would have died if they stayed in. The first fire was at about 2AM in Feb or Mar of 1976 (IIRC). We pulled up at the end of the drive...

www.quora.com

That article reinforces everything that I said.

 

[ZZLPHeels]

That is not how you fight wildfires in California. The vast majority of the fire fighting work is in the wilderness, where there are no houses. Once the fire gets to structures, they are mostly doing containment, not house rescues.

In wildland fire, sure. They write off entire neighborhoods. However, the LAFD is first and foremost a structural fire department as well as a very large EMS department. They don't fight wildfires every day, but they do fight multiple structure fires every single day. The comment that the person in question made was not in reference to wildland firefighting, it was in reference to firefighting in general. It would be akin to a trauma surgeon saying, "Who cares if I'm drunk when I'm operating on your husband? He shouldn't have put himself in a position to be shot in the first place." Simply a mindless and horrificly stupid thing to say.

 

[superrific]

Sounds like a hit a nerve. It is OK to simply say, "I was wrong." You should try it. As should the LAFD Deputy Chief.

So why have you never done that?

The nerve you hit is my frustration at having to explain shit to you folks all the time, only to have my knowledge questioned and incessant bullshit thrown at me -- and then you have the gall to be offended when people do a fraction of that.

I admit that I'm wrong when I am. I was clearly wrong when I said water causes smoke. I was typing fast and that was dumb, and I know better. As to the rest, I do not have much knowledge. I'm not going to pretend that I do. I'm also not going to just take your word, because I have seen too much BS from you to accept it. You reap what you sow.

You've got fucking idiots on this thread -- maybe not you -- talking about all kinds of shit they know nothing about. People who don't seem to understand gravity or water pressure or salination. And since you typically align yourself with those serial bullshitters, my default view of you is that you're just a bullshitter. If that's not how you want to be seen, then do better.

 

[superrific]

That article reinforces everything that I said.

It actually doesn't. It actually contradicts some of what you say.

But I was linking it sarcastically because a) the story being recited was from 1976; and b) it's quora.

Just remember this the next time you are bullshitting.

 

[ZZLPHeels]

So why have you never done that?

The nerve you hit is my frustration at having to explain shit to you folks all the time, only to have my knowledge questioned and incessant bullshit thrown at me -- and then you have the gall to be offended when people do a fraction of that.

I admit that I'm wrong when I am. I was clearly wrong when I said water causes smoke. I was typing fast and that was dumb, and I know better. As to the rest, I do not have much knowledge. I'm not going to pretend that I do. I'm also not going to just take your word, because I have seen too much BS from you to accept it. You reap what you sow.

You've got fucking idiots on this thread -- maybe not you -- talking about all kinds of shit they know nothing about. People who don't seem to understand gravity or water pressure or salination. And since you typically align yourself with those serial bullshitters, my default view of you is that you're just a bullshitter. If that's not how you want to be seen, then do better.

I'm first to admit when I am wrong. I'm wrong frequently, and am happy to admit that and learn those lessons when I need to. Also, which bullshitters have I aligned myself with on this thread? If you are going to make a claim about me, back it up.

 

[Calheel]

In wildland fire, sure. They write off entire neighborhoods. However, the LAFD is first and foremost a structural fire department as well as a very large EMS department. They don't fight wildfires every day, but they do fight multiple structure fires every single day. The comment that the person in question made was not in reference to wildland firefighting, it was in reference to firefighting in general. It would be akin to a trauma surgeon saying, "Who cares if I'm drunk when I'm operating on your husband? He shouldn't have put himself in a position to be shot in the first place." Simply a mindless and horrificly stupid thing to say.

It was in relation to Fox News saying she was a DEI hire and that is why LA burned. It had nothing to do with carrying people out of buildings on a regular structure fire.

 

[superrific]

I'm first to admit when I am wrong. I'm wrong frequently, and am happy to admit that and learn those lessons when I need to. Also, which bullshitters have I aligned myself with on this thread? If you are going to make a claim about me, back it up.

Not necessarily on this thread, but in general.

I'm man enough to admit that I can't follow every poster with a magnifying glass. I will keep my eye out for you. If you do as you say you do, then I will owe you an apology and we can keep going from there.

 

[UNCatTech]

In wildland fire, sure. They write off entire neighborhoods. However, the LAFD is first and foremost a structural fire department as well as a very large EMS department. They don't fight wildfires every day, but they do fight multiple structure fires every single day. The comment that the person in question made was not in reference to wildland firefighting, it was in reference to firefighting in general. It would be akin to a trauma surgeon saying, "Who cares if I'm drunk when I'm operating on your husband? He shouldn't have put himself in a position to be shot in the first place." Simply a mindless and horrificly stupid thing to say.

You know, these fires are disasters. The people who are having to put their lives on the line to try and stop the fires as well as protect people, should be commended not politicized.

But, a bunch of fucking idiots in this country elected a man that acts like a fucking 10 year old. He calls the governor a childish name. Instead of being supportive and working to help the situation. He then basically says every non-white male hire in the fucking world is a DEI hire and keeps this bullshit stirred up when we shouldn't be fucking talking about the leaders of the LAFD, we and every fucking leader in this country should be doing and saying everything possible to help the situation. Not, as the maga fucking cult always does, finding a thread to keep dividing the fucking country.

This fucking piece of shit that the fucking idiot cult elected, is so stuck on his lies and divisiveness that he can't see the importance of being a leader in this situation. Just like he wasn't a leader during COVID. SO, he keeps up his bullshit lies in order to keep the cult feed. Just like in the New Orleans situation where he claimed that the perpetrator was an illegal immigrant when he didn't know a fucking thing about the situation. You know the guy who was an American citizen...

I hope that Musk shares his tax cuts with the cult because they are so brought in that they want to argue about the stupidest things when we should all be supporting those in California putting their lives on the line to stop the fires and protect people.

FUCK THE CULT MENTATILITY that is working to make fucking forest fires political witch hunts.

And fuck everyone that thinks every fucking hire in this country that isn't a white male is a DEI hire. Fuck the MAGA cult.