California Fires - Politics of Blame

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Ramrouser said:
No question natural disasters occur and there's only so much you can do about it. In this case, the unusually high winds - which changed directions repeatedly spreading new fires in all directions. But, is it your contention that the local and state officials handled matters appropriately? They had several days to prepare and it's not like this is the first wildfire they've had to fight in SoCal. My point is that the local residents will decide whom to hold to account and what changes need to be made.
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What do you think they should have done differently? Please be specific?

And while you're at it, what should the local leaders in rural western NC have done differently before Helene?
 
Huh? said:
The "point" currently being made apparently is that now - while the fires are raging, people are fleeing and brave civil servants are putting their lives on the line fighting this thing - is the appropriate time to cast political blame and do a pre-mortem review all the direct and indirect causes ( including DEI for christ's sakes) instead of fully concentrating our efforts on putting the fires out. Your "point" is bullshit and you have no shame.
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I haven't made any specific criticisms about these events (not even DEI) while the fires are occurring - I've barely posted on this thread. My broader point is that it appears to be a systems wide failure on multiple levels that will be reviewed and addressed post fire. If you think everything has been handled perfectly, that's fine.
 
Ramrouser said:
No question natural disasters occur and there's only so much you can do about it. In this case, the unusually high winds - which changed directions repeatedly spreading new fires in all directions. But, is it your contention that the local and state officials handled matters appropriately? They had several days to prepare and it's not like this is the first wildfire they've had to fight in SoCal. My point is that the local residents will decide whom to hold to account and what changes need to be made.
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The idea that any of us can sit here from thousands of miles away and decide right now, while the fires are still raging, what state and local officials could have done differently, and whether they acted "appropriately," is insane. This is part of the problem with modern society generally, and MAGA world specifically: we are so overwhelmed with real-time information (good and bad) that people have this constant urge to rush to judgment and assign blame when in reality it will take weeks and months to gather the information needed to fully assess what went wrong and what could have helped. Many people simply don't have the patience or discernment to wait for further information before heading online to vomit takes everywhere, especially given that modern social media (and, increasingly, modern politics) incentivizes constant screeching invective far more than sober and nuanced judgment.
 
Ramrouser said:
I haven't made any specific criticisms about these events (not even DEI) while the fires are occurring - I've barely posted on this thread. My broader point is that it appears to be a systems wide failure on multiple levels that will be reviewed and addressed post fire. If you think everything has been handled perfectly, that's fine.
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Well, good for you, but the presidential candidate you supported and who's about to take office again has been non-stop blaming state and local officials from the opposing party since this started. That's part of the major issue - the Republican party has been entirely taken over by people who substitute constant blame and fearmongering and grievance in place of any semblance of governance or judgment. And instead of criticizing that reaction, people like you continually reward it.

Can you imagine if Biden was tweeting as hurricanes made landfall in Florida "this is all the fault of crazy Ron DeSantis who has ruined the great state of Florida"? Of course you can't. It would be rightfully castigated as counterproductive, harmful, and plain old bad leadership. if we ever want to get back to a place where people in this country have some shared sense of national civic duty and pride, then voters are going to have to make clear that they want leaders who want to actually help Americans rather than screeching dipshits who want to shitpost and treat our national politics like an episode of the Jerry Springer show.
 
Ramrouser said:
No question natural disasters occur and there's only so much you can do about it. In this case, the unusually high winds - which changed directions repeatedly spreading new fires in all directions. But, is it your contention that the local and state officials handled matters appropriately? They had several days to prepare and it's not like this is the first wildfire they've had to fight in SoCal. My point is that the local residents will decide whom to hold to account and what changes need to be made.
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Your critique has been duly noted, just as it was during Greg Abott’s mishandling and poor preparation for the power grid failure years ago in Texas.

I mean, I’m assuming you were all over IC at the time lighting into him as well, since you’re such a fair and balanced individual.
 
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The other aspect of the blame game from MAGA is that they bray non-stop about government overreach if any official tries to do anything to preemptively solve problems. Put in a pre-pandemic plan to deal with it? Nazi's trying to end freedom! Create ordinances requiring appropriate water usage and building and maintenance standards? Communists who want to control our land! But heaven forbid something bad happens, then it's well on that issue the government should have done something!
 
WaynetheDrain said:
Your critique has been duly noted, just as it was during Jim Abott’s mishandling and poor preparation for the power grid failure years ago in Texas.

I mean, I’m assuming you were all over IC at the time lighting into him as well, since you’re such a fair and balanced individual.
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Jim Abbott was a one-handed baseball pitcher. Greg Abbott is the Texas governor to whom you referring.

;)
 
rodoheel said:
The idea that any of us can sit here from thousands of miles away and decide right now, while the fires are still raging, what state and local officials could have done differently, and whether they acted "appropriately," is insane. This is part of the problem with modern society generally, and MAGA world specifically: we are so overwhelmed with real-time information (good and bad) that people have this constant urge to rush to judgment and assign blame when in reality it will take weeks and months to gather the information needed to fully assess what went wrong and what could have helped. Many people simply don't have the patience or discernment to wait for further information before heading online to vomit takes everywhere, especially given that modern social media (and, increasingly, modern politics) incentivizes constant screeching invective far more than sober and nuanced judgment.
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Well said. I'll just add that MAGA tends to make this even more difficult by:

1. Carving out entire areas of potential contribution, such as climate change;
2. Defending the only president or president-elect in modern US history to blame political leaders of the other party during times of natural disaster, and
3. Spreading enormous amounts of disinformation that require massive valuable resources to correct.

I can't help but think of MAGA as the world's most refined example of a systemic saboteur. The goal is not always to blow up the railroad bridge. Sometimes it's to pull resources away from the maintenance of the railroad bridge to prevent the constant rhetorical assaults on the railroad bridge. Either way, it makes it much easier for the railroad bridge to be destroyed. I will never forgive Trump and his supporters for creating the environment in which we cannot trust our railroad bridges to keep functioning. It's one thing to defend against threats from overseas. It's a whole different thing to defend against saboteurs in our own country.
 
WaynetheDrain said:
Your critique has been duly noted, just as it was during Jim Abott’s mishandling and poor preparation for the power grid failure years ago in Texas.

I mean, I’m assuming you were all over IC at the time lighting into him as well, since you’re such a fair and balanced individual.
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Actually, I did fault Texas for the grid failure and it was personal to me given my daughter lives in Dallas and was without power for 2 weeks.
 
lawtig02 said:
What do you think they should have done differently? Please be specific?

And while you're at it, what should the local leaders in rural western NC have done differently before Helene?
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Bump, since Ramrouser is apparently in the mood to critique GOP leadership for their local infrastructure failures.
 
Ramrouser said:
Actually, I did fault Texas for the grid failure and it was personal to me given my daughter lives in Dallas and was without power for 2 weeks.
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Good to know. Surely your daughter and other Texas voters have brought the local and state officials to account and remediation efforts are under way.

Oh wait, all of the officials are still in office and there are few remediation efforts to the grid underway because... regulation = socialism? We're all engaged in a national round robin of magical thinking until the next cold snap / hurricane / fire diverts our gnat-like attention.
 
rodoheel said:
The idea that any of us can sit here from thousands of miles away and decide right now, while the fires are still raging, what state and local officials could have done differently, and whether they acted "appropriately," is insane. This is part of the problem with modern society generally, and MAGA world specifically: we are so overwhelmed with real-time information (good and bad) that people have this constant urge to rush to judgment and assign blame when in reality it will take weeks and months to gather the information needed to fully assess what went wrong and what could have helped. Many people simply don't have the patience or discernment to wait for further information before heading online to vomit takes everywhere, especially given that modern social media (and, increasingly, modern politics) incentivizes constant screeching invective far more than sober and nuanced judgment.
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Other than singling out MAGA for criticism, you make valid points. I would remind everyone that all of this (politicization of natural disasters) started with Katrina and the relentless, unfair criticism of W ("Bush hates black people") while the rescue missions and cleanup was occurring. Initially, Blanco and Nagin were given a pass.
 
lawtig02 said:
Bump, since Ramrouser is apparently in the mood to critique GOP leadership for their local infrastructure failures.
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Honestly, I don't know but I know FEMA isn't stepping up for WNC. WNC also includes Asheville so it's not all GOP failures.
 
Ramrouser said:
Honestly, I don't know but I know FEMA isn't stepping up for WNC. WNC also includes Asheville so it's not all GOP failures.
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What's your basis of knowledge that FEMA is not stepping up for WNC? Because I'm up here today, and I spend a lot of time here, and I see FEMA everywhere. What are you seeing in Buckhead that causes you to believe otherwise?
 
Ramrouser said:
Other than singling out MAGA for criticism, you make valid points. I would remind everyone that all of this (politicization of natural disasters) started with Katrina and the relentless, unfair criticism of W ("Bush hates black people") while the rescue missions and cleanup was occurring. Initially, Blanco and Nagin were given a pass.
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You’re comparing a comment made by rapper Kanye West to the comments made by the current President-elect.
 
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