California Fires - Politics of Blame

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lawtig02 said:
What's your basis of knowledge that FEMA is not stepping up for WNC? Because I'm up here today, and I spend a lot of time here, and I see FEMA everywhere. What are you seeing in Buckhead that causes you to believe otherwise?
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Oh snap, are you getting caught in this snow?
 
So have their ever been more haunting prophetic retrospective lyrics ever?

Then the chilly winds blew down
Across the desert
Through the canyons of the coast
To the Malibu
Where the pretty people play
Hungry for power
To light their neon way
Give them things to do
Some rich men came and raped the land
Nobody caught 'em
Put up a bunch of ugly boxes
And Jesus people bought 'em
And they called it paradise
The place to be
They watched the hazy sun
Sinking in the sea
You can leave it all behind
Sail to Lahaina
Just like the missionaries did
So many years ago
They even brought a neon sign
"Jesus is coming"
Brought the white man's burden down
Brought the white man's reign
Who will provide the grand design?
What is yours and what is mine?
'Cause there is no more new frontier
We have got to make it here
We satisfy our endless needs
And justify our bloody deeds
In the name of destiny
And in the name of God
And you can see them there
On Sunday morning
Stand up and sing about
What it's like up there
They call it paradise
I don't know why
You call someplace paradise
Kiss it goodbye
 
First, for the record, I was born and grew up in WNC so I have a frame of reference.

I read where individuals' FEMA hotel stays have ended and they're forced to sleep in their cars in freezing weather. I read where people are still living on their properties in tents with portable gas heaters. I read about the lack of FEMA trailers. Twitter is full of these stories and pleas for help. I refuse to believe its all "misinformation." Are you saying none of this is true?
 
Ramrouser said:
First, for the record, I was born and grew up in WNC so I have a frame of reference.

I read where individuals' FEMA hotel stays have ended and they're forced to sleep in their cars in freezing weather. I read where people are still living on their properties in tents with portable gas heaters. I read about the lack of FEMA trailers. Twitter is full of these stories and pleas for help. I refuse to believe its all "misinformation." Are you saying none of this is true?
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More than half in WNC hotels through FEMA program to be forced out this weekend​


www.bpr.org

More than half in WNC hotels through FEMA program to be forced out this weekend

A FEMA review found 3,500 families living in government-paid-for hotel rooms weren't eligible for the hotel program and must leave by Jan. 11.
www.bpr.org www.bpr.org

FEMA says the reasons a person might be ineligible for ongoing hotel assistance include:

  • Their home is considered habitable.
  • They declined an inspection of their residence to verify it was damaged.
  • FEMA has been unable to contact the applicant to update their housing needs, despite multiple attempts.
FEMA said representatives have tried to contact people as many as eight times before labeling them ineligible.

"It’s important for survivors to keep in touch with FEMA, provide regular updates on housing status and update contact information so their recovery process is not delayed," FEMA spokesperson wrote in an email to BPR.
 
Ramrouser said:
Other than singling out MAGA for criticism, you make valid points. I would remind everyone that all of this (politicization of natural disasters) started with Katrina and the relentless, unfair criticism of W ("Bush hates black people") while the rescue missions and cleanup was occurring. Initially, Blanco and Nagin were given a pass.
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There is no equivalence at all between Kanye (now, of course, a MAGA diehard), who was then a random rapper, making that sort of criticism, and the literal leader of the Republican Party doing it while compelling all of his most powerful subordinates to do the same.

That is the fundamental difference with Trump and MAGA, and has been from the beginning. in MAGA world, the inmates run the asylum, going all the way up to the very top. The modern Republican Party is dominated by its most autocratic and most aggressive elements, which is far different from the Democrats.
 
Ramrouser said:
First, for the record, I was born and grew up in WNC so I have a frame of reference.

I read where individuals' FEMA hotel stays have ended and they're forced to sleep in their cars in freezing weather. I read where people are still living on their properties in tents with portable gas heaters. I read about the lack of FEMA trailers. Twitter is full of these stories and pleas for help. I refuse to believe its all "misinformation." Are you saying none of this is true?
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So I'm confused. Are we for ruthless American self bootstrapping or large scale government assistance programs for people down on their luck

Or do you get to pick and choose which you want to support?
 
Ramrouser said:
First, for the record, I was born and grew up in WNC so I have a frame of reference.

I read where individuals' FEMA hotel stays have ended and they're forced to sleep in their cars in freezing weather. I read where people are still living on their properties in tents with portable gas heaters. I read about the lack of FEMA trailers. Twitter is full of these stories and pleas for help. I refuse to believe its all "misinformation." Are you saying none of this is true?
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Here's an article about it:

wlos.com

Thousands in Western NC may lose FEMA housing aid as winter storm looms

Thousands of Western North Carolina families may be without housing as the winter storm approaches.
wlos.com wlos.com

If FEMA is incorrectly applying the regulations and ending support for people who should be continuing to receive assistance, then that would be a problem. But if FEMA is correctly applying the rules that govern the program, perhaps your complaint should be to legislators to (1) increase FEMA's funding (rather than constantly seeking to decrease it, as Republicans have done) and/or (2) change the rules around how long aid can be provided?
 
Ramrouser said:
No question natural disasters occur and there's only so much you can do about it. In this case, the unusually high winds - which changed directions repeatedly spreading new fires in all directions. But, is it your contention that the local and state officials handled matters appropriately? They had several days to prepare and it's not like this is the first wildfire they've had to fight in SoCal. My point is that the local residents will decide whom to hold to account and what changes need to be made.
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Is it your contention that state and local officials didn't handle this correctly? What does "correctly" even mean in this case, what does "incorrectly" mean? What multi-year set of decisions do you see as creating an environment where this was handled incorrectly?

Humans often learn from events. Human often prepare for what they know and what they think they know, they rarely prepare for things they never thought of. This rush to assign blame reeks of our human desire to control (and where convenient, to score some political points). Why didn't we know about that asteroid? Why didn't we know about that undersea earthquake that created a tsunami, why didn't we handle covid perfectly, why did we use DDT? Where to put the blame??????
 
rodoheel said:
Here's an article about it:

wlos.com

Thousands in Western NC may lose FEMA housing aid as winter storm looms

Thousands of Western North Carolina families may be without housing as the winter storm approaches.
wlos.com wlos.com

If FEMA is incorrectly applying the regulations and ending support for people who should be continuing to receive assistance, then that would be a problem. But if FEMA is correctly applying the rules that govern the program, perhaps your complaint should be to legislators to (1) increase FEMA's funding (rather than constantly seeking to decrease it, as Republicans have done) and/or (2) change the rules around how long aid can be provide
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I'm pretty far from a bleeding heart, but kicking folks out of their hotels (after a disaster) in 14 degree weather seems a bit harsh. We treat "migrants" better than that by putting them up in Manhattan hotels and giving them debit cards.
 
rodoheel said:
Here's an article about it:

wlos.com

Thousands in Western NC may lose FEMA housing aid as winter storm looms

Thousands of Western North Carolina families may be without housing as the winter storm approaches.
wlos.com wlos.com

If FEMA is incorrectly applying the regulations and ending support for people who should be continuing to receive assistance, then that would be a problem. But if FEMA is correctly applying the rules that govern the program, perhaps your complaint should be to legislators to (1) increase FEMA's funding (rather than constantly seeking to decrease it, as Republicans have done) and/or (2) change the rules around how long aid can be provided?
Click to expand...
FEMA has also offered extensions to those who otherwise qualify if they reach out to renew their applications.
 
sringwal said:

More than half in WNC hotels through FEMA program to be forced out this weekend​


www.bpr.org

More than half in WNC hotels through FEMA program to be forced out this weekend

A FEMA review found 3,500 families living in government-paid-for hotel rooms weren't eligible for the hotel program and must leave by Jan. 11.
www.bpr.org www.bpr.org

FEMA says the reasons a person might be ineligible for ongoing hotel assistance include:

  • Their home is considered habitable.
  • They declined an inspection of their residence to verify it was damaged.
  • FEMA has been unable to contact the applicant to update their housing needs, despite multiple attempts.
FEMA said representatives have tried to contact people as many as eight times before labeling them ineligible.

"It’s important for survivors to keep in touch with FEMA, provide regular updates on housing status and update contact information so their recovery process is not delayed," FEMA spokesperson wrote in an email to BPR.
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Yeah, but you looked it up. That wasn’t fair.
 
Ramrouser said:
I'm pretty far from a bleeding heart, but kicking folks out of their hotels (after a disaster) in 14 degree weather seems a bit harsh. We treat "migrants" better than that by putting them up in Manhattan hotels and giving them debit cards.
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I mean it's going to be that cold in the mountains for a few weeks; do you suggest people who aren't entitled to aid continue to receive it for weeks more until the weather is warm again?

In any event, I suspect anyone who is actually getting "kicked out" of a hotel (if that's even happening) has probably already received several communications about it beforehand. It doesn't sound like (and I would find it hard to believe that) FEMA is just showing up out of nowhere with jackbooted thugs and throwing people out on the streets,
 
rodoheel said:
I mean it's going to be that cold in the mountains for a few weeks; do you suggest people who aren't entitled to aid continue to receive it for weeks more until the weather is warm again?

In any event, I suspect anyone who is actually getting "kicked out" of a hotel (if that's even happening) has probably already received several communications about it beforehand. It doesn't sound like (and I would find it hard to believe that) FEMA is just showing up out of nowhere with jackbooted thugs and throwing people out on the streets,
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My hunch is that the majority of folks who are being threatened with termination of services are folks who didn't follow through on the process and it's likely they never submitted an application to continue services, didn't respond to attempts to contact them, or they didn't follow through with getting an updated inspection on their permanent property.
 
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SnoopRob said:
My hunch is that the majority of folks who are being threatened with termination of services are folks who didn't follow through on the process and it's likely they never submitted an application to continue services, didn't responded to attempts to contact them, or they didn't follow through with getting an updated inspection on their permanent property.
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Right and if you let those people stay in hotels and a bunch of them turn out to not have been eligible then six months from now the MAGA crew would be screaming about fraud in the system and how the government doesn't track how the money is spent. There's no winning with a group whose primary objective is to tear down the government at all costs.
 
Ramrouser said:
First, for the record, I was born and grew up in WNC so I have a frame of reference.

I read where individuals' FEMA hotel stays have ended and they're forced to sleep in their cars in freezing weather. I read where people are still living on their properties in tents with portable gas heaters. I read about the lack of FEMA trailers. Twitter is full of these stories and pleas for help. I refuse to believe its all "misinformation." Are you saying none of this is true?
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If you really grew up in WNC, surely you still have friends or family up here. What are they saying? You don't have to rely on the increasingly garbage-filled twitter. What are your personal experiences with FEMA in WNC?
 
rodoheel said:
What do you think would have prevented these fires or prevented them from spreading? It's always entertaining to hear conservatives rail about taxes and getting the government out of our lives then something like this happens and it's all "why didn't the city spend an additional $200 million on massive upgrades to the city's water infrastructure"?
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It's the Republican way - use whatever argument works at the time to attack Democrats. It's literally a no-win scenario with them - Democrats use government power and get attacked, they don't use it and get attacked. Very neat system for them.
 
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