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lmmfao
sheep from both sides believe whatever they want to believe. whatever makes them feel warm, cozy and right. truth is nothing but a conditioned mindset
California Fires - Politics of Blame
- Thread starter nycfan
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- Politics
sheep from both sides believe whatever they want to believe. whatever makes them feel warm, cozy and right. truth is nothing but a conditioned mindset
ZenMode
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I guess the question is whether or not there are any state-wide policies/practices that actually did contribute to the fire, the likelihood of the fire being larger than it needed to be or restricted firefighters from fighting it effectively.
California prioritizes environmental protection more than many, if not most, states, I'd guess. For example, Newsom has apparently vowed to not let rebuilding be slowed by California's rather cumbersome environmental requirements for construction.
Are there similar practices/policies that contributed the carnage we're seeing now?
California prioritizes environmental protection more than many, if not most, states, I'd guess. For example, Newsom has apparently vowed to not let rebuilding be slowed by California's rather cumbersome environmental requirements for construction.
Are there similar practices/policies that contributed the carnage we're seeing now?
In time, I will be interested in see how LA and CA approach two issues.
The first issue is zoning. LA is majority-zoned for single homes. That affects affordability, its transportation infrastructure and explains in part why there is so much development in areas prone to wildfire. That won't change when Altadena and the Palisades are rebuilt - placing multi-home dwellings in fire-prone areas is an even worse idea - but I will be interested in seeing if this affects zoning policy overall in the region. Given what's happening elsewhere, I doubt anything will change.
The other issue is how to suppress wildfires when you don't have access to aircraft in high winds. This will require additional storage reservoirs, high pressure improvements to deliver water sufficiently at high elevations and on-ground fire suppression systems. My guess is that this will costs hundreds of billions to create satisfactory capability across the region. Will they do this? Given the events of the past week, I think they have to.
lawtig02
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As long as the same general standard is applied to both California and Florida, I think these discussions can be very worthwhile. Both states are relatively wealthy. Both are coastal. Both are prone to natural disasters. Both are having major issues with developable land for the population that wants to live there, and both are really struggling with soaring property insurance premiums. Both are very much impacted by climate change. The only difference, as it relates to this issue, is that one is governed by conservatives and one is governed by liberals.
These are important discussions to have. The cost of responding to these disasters is enormous, and it's only going to increase. So let's have the discussions in as honest, transparent, and critical a way as we can. But if someone critiques California without critiquing Florida, or vice versa, they can just fuck right off from my perspective. These are issues that should not be political, and I'm happy to ignore anyone who wants to make them such.
My sense is that Florida is much closer to the ecological abyss than SoCal is. The insurance market is already starting to enforce rationality there, and it's not pretty. From a policy perspective, the next fight is whether or to what degree he federal government agrees to be the insurer of last resort. IMO, that's an entitlement that both liberals and conservatives should be fighting against.
ZenMode
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I think there's two parts to this: prevention and how to address what can't be prevented. There are things that can be controlled by Florida, California and I'd probably include Tornado Alley and there are things that can't be controlled. We can't control tornadoes or hurricanes and the fact that fires are going to happen, but things can be done to lessen the impact of those events. Houses can be built to be hurricane-proof. The ground in forest areas can be maintained. Stuff like that.
lawtig02
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??? That has nothing to do with my comment.
I think there's two parts to this: prevention and how to address what can't be prevented. There are things that can be controlled by Florida, California and I'd probably include Tornado Alley and there are things that can't be controlled. We can't control tornadoes or hurricanes and the fact that fires are going to happen, but things can be done to lessen the impact of those events. Houses can be built to be hurricane-proof. The ground in forest areas can be maintained. Stuff like that.
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Or you could just speculate in accordance with your preconceived political notions.
ZenMode
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My indirect point was that there probably isn't much in Florida to critique, that I know of. They can't prevent hurricanes. They can maybe take steps to flood-proof in some way. Am I missing something?
ZenMode
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I don't think all of my preconceived political notions are baseless. It's not a stretch to recognize the differences, politically, between Florida and California. To my knowledge, Florida has never put legal restrictions on insurance companies ability to manage rates as was the case with Prop 103 in CA.
lawtig02
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Yes. Everything that can -- and should -- be critiqued in California can -- and should -- be critiqued in Florida. This seems obvious to me, but are you not seeing it somehow?
lawtig02
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1moretimeagain
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Insurance rate increases in Florida must be submitted to and approved by the state. There’s be no shortage of insurance companies who opted out of policies in FL.
lawtig02
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I'm going to take my own advice and ignore the guy who's critiquing California without extending the same standard to Florida. I'm generally opposed to ignoring people here, but that's such a ridiculous position I can't help but think it's necessary.
ZenMode
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I stand corrected. I don't know the details of Florida's policy, but it does have one.
lawtig02
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Is this where the board contrarians learned how to make analogies?
ZenMode
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It appears this crisis was foreshadowed.
Decades of mismanagement led to choked forests — now it's time to clear them out, fire experts say
“Forest management is a lot like gardening. You have to keep the forest open and thin," said Mike Rogers, a former Angeles National Forest supervisor.
The Western United States is enduring yet another devastating fire year, with more than 4.1 million acres already scorched in California alone, at least 31 people dead and hundreds of others forced to flee their homes.
Wildland fires are increasingly following a now-familiar pattern: bigger, hotter and more destructive. A recent Los Angeles Times headline declaring 2020 to be “The worst fire season. Again” illustrated some of the frustration residents feel over the state’s fire strategy.
For decades, federal, state and local agencies have prioritized fire suppression over prevention, pouring billions of dollars into hiring and training firefighters, buying and maintaining firefighting equipment and educating the public on fire safety.
But as climate change continues to fuel dry conditions in the American West, many experts say it’s long past time to shift the focus back to managing healthy forests that can better withstand fire and add to a more sustainable future.
“Fires have always been part of our ecosystem,” said Mike Rogers, a former Angeles National Forest supervisor and board member of the National Association of Forest Service Retirees. “Forest management is a lot like gardening. You have to keep the forest open and thin.”
Federal forest management dates back to the 1870s, when Congress created an office within the U.S. Department of Agriculture tasked with assessing the quality and conditions of forests. In 1905, President Theodore Roosevelt oversaw the birth of the U.S. Forest Service, which manages 193 million acres of public land across the country.
In California, forest management also falls under the purview of the state’s Department of Forestry and Fire Protection, known as Cal Fire.
Since 2011, Cal Fire has spent more than $600 million on fire prevention efforts and removed or felled nearly 2 million dead trees. In 2018, California set the goal of treating — which can include slashing, burning, sawing or thinning trees — 500,000 acres of wildland per year, yet Cal Fire remains far from meeting that target.
“It’s an ongoing process,” said Cal Fire spokeswoman Christine McMorrow. “There is always going to be more work.”
Cal Fire is steadily receiving injections of money to do what it can to reduce wildfire risk, including better land management and training a new generation of foresters. In 2018, former Gov. Jerry Brown signed a bill that will allocate $1 billion over five years to Cal Fire to be used on fire prevention measures. But experts warn that more money is needed.
www.nbcnews.com
Decades of mismanagement led to choked forests — now it's time to clear them out, fire experts say
“Forest management is a lot like gardening. You have to keep the forest open and thin," said Mike Rogers, a former Angeles National Forest supervisor.
The Western United States is enduring yet another devastating fire year, with more than 4.1 million acres already scorched in California alone, at least 31 people dead and hundreds of others forced to flee their homes.
Wildland fires are increasingly following a now-familiar pattern: bigger, hotter and more destructive. A recent Los Angeles Times headline declaring 2020 to be “The worst fire season. Again” illustrated some of the frustration residents feel over the state’s fire strategy.
For decades, federal, state and local agencies have prioritized fire suppression over prevention, pouring billions of dollars into hiring and training firefighters, buying and maintaining firefighting equipment and educating the public on fire safety.
But as climate change continues to fuel dry conditions in the American West, many experts say it’s long past time to shift the focus back to managing healthy forests that can better withstand fire and add to a more sustainable future.
“Fires have always been part of our ecosystem,” said Mike Rogers, a former Angeles National Forest supervisor and board member of the National Association of Forest Service Retirees. “Forest management is a lot like gardening. You have to keep the forest open and thin.”
Federal forest management dates back to the 1870s, when Congress created an office within the U.S. Department of Agriculture tasked with assessing the quality and conditions of forests. In 1905, President Theodore Roosevelt oversaw the birth of the U.S. Forest Service, which manages 193 million acres of public land across the country.
In California, forest management also falls under the purview of the state’s Department of Forestry and Fire Protection, known as Cal Fire.
Since 2011, Cal Fire has spent more than $600 million on fire prevention efforts and removed or felled nearly 2 million dead trees. In 2018, California set the goal of treating — which can include slashing, burning, sawing or thinning trees — 500,000 acres of wildland per year, yet Cal Fire remains far from meeting that target.
“It’s an ongoing process,” said Cal Fire spokeswoman Christine McMorrow. “There is always going to be more work.”
Cal Fire is steadily receiving injections of money to do what it can to reduce wildfire risk, including better land management and training a new generation of foresters. In 2018, former Gov. Jerry Brown signed a bill that will allocate $1 billion over five years to Cal Fire to be used on fire prevention measures. But experts warn that more money is needed.
Fire experts say mismanaged, choked forests need to be cleared out
“Forest management is a lot like gardening. You have to keep the forest open and thin," said Mike Rogers, a former Angeles National Forest supervisor.
www.nbcnews.com