Charlie Kirk shot and killed at Utah rally.

Sometimes, it is best to look elsewhere for a view on ourselves.


Moments before the crack of a gunshot changed everything, thousands of students had gathered under clear blue skies at an idyllic Utah college to hear from a man considered a rock star in conservative campus politics.

As the 31-year-old Charlie Kirk sat under a tent, debating political opponents taking their turn at a microphone, many gathered on the lawns cheered – and some protested. Seconds later, they were all running in terror.

The activist was struck in the neck by a bullet, mortally wounded. The episode playing out as cameras rolled, some showing the murder in bloody detail.

The images will be hard to forget - particularly for the many young conservatives for whom Kirk held celebrity status. The leader of their movement, regardless of the ultimate motive behind his killing, will now be viewed as a martyr for the cause.

Kirk, in the past, had warned of what he said was the threat of violence from his critics – of which he had many, given his provocative style of conservativism. Nonetheless he was willing to travel to college campuses, where the politics frequently tilt to the left, and debate all comers.

He was an advocate of gun rights and conservative values, an outspoken critic of transgender rights, and a staunch, unapologetic Donald Trump supporter. His Turning Point US organisation played a key role in the voter turnout drive that saw the president return to the White House this year.

The tent where he was shot had "prove me wrong" emblazoned on it. He was a hero to young conservative students in particular, meeting them where they were and offering them a movement of their own.

Kirk's killing is both another episode of shocking gun violence in America – and the latest in an ever-lengthening line of recent political violence.

Earlier this year two Democratic state legislators in Minnesota were shot in their homes – with one dying from her wounds. Last year, Donald Trump was twice the target of assassination attempts. His brush with a bullet at an outdoor rally in Butler, Pennsylvania, bears striking similarities to Wednesday's shooting in Utah – both playing out before gathered crowds at outdoor venues.

Two years before that, a hammer-wielding assailant broke in to the home of then-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, a prominent Democrat. In 2017, a man opened fire on Republican congressmen practising on a northern Virginia baseball field.

It is difficult to divine where American politics goes from here, but the trajectory is bleak.

Violence begets violence. Increasingly divisive rhetoric, fuelled by social media echo chambers and easy access to firearms, leads to raw nerves and a heightened potential for bloodshed.

Conservative activists are reconsidering what security measures are necessary for public appearances, just as many local politicians did after the Minnesota shootings. But the Butler attempt on Trump's life was nearly successful, despite trained local and federal security forces on the scene.

If there is a sense that no-one is safe – that public life itself has become a blood sport – that will have its own corrosive effect on American politics.

Trump, in a video address from the Oval Office posted on his Truth Social website on Wednesday night, called the killing a "dark moment for America".

But he wasted little time in blaming the "radical left" for Kirk's murder. He ticked through some of the recent instances of political violence - those that targeted conservatives - and said his administration would find "each and every one of those who contributed to this atrocity and to other political violence".

Those comments are sure to be welcomed by those on the right who in the hours after the shooting called for a crackdown on left-wing groups.

"It is time, within the confines of the law, to infiltrate, disrupt, arrest and incarcerate all of those who are responsible for this chaos," conservative activist Christopher Rufo wrote on X.

Many prominent Republicans and Democrats, including potential 2028 presidential contenders, lined up to condemn political violence and call for a cooling of rhetoric.

But in Congress on Wednesday evening, a moment of silence for Kirk was quickly followed by a shouting match between lawmakers - a further indication that partisan tensions are still high.

Meanwhile, in Utah, witnesses, law enforcement and state and local leaders continue to come to grips with the trauma of the day.

In emotional remarks during a press conference, Governor Spencer Cox – who has frequently spoken out against overheated political rhetoric and political divisiveness – described a nation, soon to celebrate a milestone anniversary of its founding, that is "broken".

"Is this it?" he asked. "Is this what 250 years has wrought upon us?"

"I pray that is not the case," he answered.

The doubt in his voice underscored the simple truth that, on this day, the future of America and whether its violent politics can be fixed seems far from certain.
 
Half the good ole boys who live in my rural NC county could make this shot in their sleep. Anyone raised deer hunting could do it.
Sure, that’s why a hunter is on the list of possibilities. But what this was not is someone who bought a rifle a week ago along with a new purchaser special at a gun range to learn how it works just for the purpose of doing this. It’s someone who has used a weapon before, whether that be in the context of formal training through work, or someone who got it growing up hunting.
 
This seems like a poorly considered way to frame this point:

IMG_9620.jpeg


I’m not arguing whether law enforcement should have confidence but framing it as “well publicize the video only if we fail” seems like the wrong way to frame the next steps.

What if the guy is wearing a hyper realistic mask like the Minnesota assassin, for instance? I mean if they have a clear video maybe they’ve already eliminated that possibility. But it seems dumb to emphasize that if they release the video to the public prior to announcing identification and/or an arrest it is because they failed internally.
 
I grow weary of the hand-wringing on the left. Everyone who claims to be nauseated about Kirk's death -- are you serious? He's like a dead terrorist. He was at war with liberal democracy, so liberal democracy shouldn't give a fuck about his death. He was one of the people most responsible for GOP's embrace of hate politics. For him to be killed by hate politics -- if that's what happened -- just means he lived to see the fruit of his labors. It's true that political violence is terrible. But Kirk was an advocate for political violence. He was a net negative for society. He was a man of limited ability who managed to climb to preposterous heights simply by peddling hate, fear, and violence with little sophistication, giving it to his fans raw and unadulterated.

Stop saying, I hate it that he was killed. He was killed by his own hand. I don't care.
 
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Wasn't Luigi's problem due to grievances about insurance business? Doesn't seem left v right.
Ezra (who's Jewish) conveniently "forgot" to list:

The two Jewish individuals killed outside the Israeli embassy in DC - killed by the "free, free Palestine" guy;

The flame throwing guy who attacked the elderly Jewish protestors in Colorado who were asking that the hostages be released; and

The numerous Tesla terrorists who firebombed Tesla dealerships.
 
Sometimes, it is best to look elsewhere for a view on ourselves.


Moments before the crack of a gunshot changed everything, thousands of students had gathered under clear blue skies at an idyllic Utah college to hear from a man considered a rock star in conservative campus politics.

As the 31-year-old Charlie Kirk sat under a tent, debating political opponents taking their turn at a microphone, many gathered on the lawns cheered – and some protested. Seconds later, they were all running in terror.

The activist was struck in the neck by a bullet, mortally wounded. The episode playing out as cameras rolled, some showing the murder in bloody detail.

The images will be hard to forget - particularly for the many young conservatives for whom Kirk held celebrity status. The leader of their movement, regardless of the ultimate motive behind his killing, will now be viewed as a martyr for the cause.

Kirk, in the past, had warned of what he said was the threat of violence from his critics – of which he had many, given his provocative style of conservativism. Nonetheless he was willing to travel to college campuses, where the politics frequently tilt to the left, and debate all comers.

He was an advocate of gun rights and conservative values, an outspoken critic of transgender rights, and a staunch, unapologetic Donald Trump supporter. His Turning Point US organisation played a key role in the voter turnout drive that saw the president return to the White House this year.

The tent where he was shot had "prove me wrong" emblazoned on it. He was a hero to young conservative students in particular, meeting them where they were and offering them a movement of their own.

Kirk's killing is both another episode of shocking gun violence in America – and the latest in an ever-lengthening line of recent political violence.

Earlier this year two Democratic state legislators in Minnesota were shot in their homes – with one dying from her wounds. Last year, Donald Trump was twice the target of assassination attempts. His brush with a bullet at an outdoor rally in Butler, Pennsylvania, bears striking similarities to Wednesday's shooting in Utah – both playing out before gathered crowds at outdoor venues.

Two years before that, a hammer-wielding assailant broke in to the home of then-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, a prominent Democrat. In 2017, a man opened fire on Republican congressmen practising on a northern Virginia baseball field.

It is difficult to divine where American politics goes from here, but the trajectory is bleak.

Violence begets violence. Increasingly divisive rhetoric, fuelled by social media echo chambers and easy access to firearms, leads to raw nerves and a heightened potential for bloodshed.

Conservative activists are reconsidering what security measures are necessary for public appearances, just as many local politicians did after the Minnesota shootings. But the Butler attempt on Trump's life was nearly successful, despite trained local and federal security forces on the scene.

If there is a sense that no-one is safe – that public life itself has become a blood sport – that will have its own corrosive effect on American politics.

Trump, in a video address from the Oval Office posted on his Truth Social website on Wednesday night, called the killing a "dark moment for America".

But he wasted little time in blaming the "radical left" for Kirk's murder. He ticked through some of the recent instances of political violence - those that targeted conservatives - and said his administration would find "each and every one of those who contributed to this atrocity and to other political violence".

Those comments are sure to be welcomed by those on the right who in the hours after the shooting called for a crackdown on left-wing groups.

"It is time, within the confines of the law, to infiltrate, disrupt, arrest and incarcerate all of those who are responsible for this chaos," conservative activist Christopher Rufo wrote on X.

Many prominent Republicans and Democrats, including potential 2028 presidential contenders, lined up to condemn political violence and call for a cooling of rhetoric.

But in Congress on Wednesday evening, a moment of silence for Kirk was quickly followed by a shouting match between lawmakers - a further indication that partisan tensions are still high.

Meanwhile, in Utah, witnesses, law enforcement and state and local leaders continue to come to grips with the trauma of the day.

In emotional remarks during a press conference, Governor Spencer Cox – who has frequently spoken out against overheated political rhetoric and political divisiveness – described a nation, soon to celebrate a milestone anniversary of its founding, that is "broken".

"Is this it?" he asked. "Is this what 250 years has wrought upon us?"

"I pray that is not the case," he answered.

The doubt in his voice underscored the simple truth that, on this day, the future of America and whether its violent politics can be fixed seems far from certain.
This reminds me that it was only a few days ago that Trump shared a disgusting AI-generated video of Nancy Pelosi manipulated to have her complain about the strain of her husband visiting his lover/her would-be assassin in jail. That hammer-wielding maniac fully intended to assassinate Pelosi and Neely killed her husband, but that has been disgusting fodder for right wing humor, including by the POTUS and his son, since it happened.

None of which justifies the attack on Kirk or the random folks out there celebrating it. But it is an example of a very serious assassination attempt being politically nullified with ghoulish precision and apparent glee by many of the same people shouting about martyrdom for Kirk and war now.
 
I repeatedly and consistently hung out inside Boshamer Stadium for all 4 years of my time in Chapel Hill when it was supposed to be closed.
I routinely would use a paint can opener to pull open exit doors from the bottom that had no outdoor handles (usually theaters on campus that I was working in productions on at odd hours). Once climbed the corner of Swain Hall to a balcony so I could get in a window to open the building for a larger crowd when the outdoors were locked when they shouldn't be. When there is a will, there is usually a simple way.
 
I grow weary of the hand-wringing on the left. Everyone who claims to be nauseated about Kirk's death -- are you serious? He's a dead terrorist. He was one of the people most responsible for GOP's embrace of hate politics. For him to be killed by hate politics -- if that's what happened -- just means he lived to see the fruit of his labors. It's true that political violence is terrible. But Kirk was an advocate for political violence. He was a net negative for society. He was a man of limited ability who managed to climb to preposterous heights simply by peddling hate, fear, and violence with little sophistication, giving it to his fans raw and unadulterated.

Stop saying, I hate it that he was killed. He was killed by his own hand. I don't care.
You have every right to your own feelings on the subject but so do those of us who genuinely hate that he was killed.
 
I routinely would use a paint can opener to pull open exit doors from the bottom that had no outdoor handles (usually theaters on campus that I was working in productions on at odd hours). Once climbed the corner of Swain Hall to a balcony so I could get in a window to open the building for a larger crowd when the outdoors were locked when they shouldn't be. When there is a will, there is usually a simple way.
Man, I was such a square in college (well still am, I guess).
 
Have a hunch the Trump neutering of the FBI is going to become the story on this. I believe the local FBI Agent in charge (of that area) was canned a few weeks back. Not to mention many experienced FBI agents were transferred from domestic terrorism to the immigration problem.
Doubt it.

MAGA’s response if the shooter isn’t identified will be “Deep State…..derp…Deep State.”
 
Never miss an opportunity to blame Trump for something...

JB Pritzker condemns political violence after Charlie Kirk's death, says Trump's rhetoric 'often foments it'​


Illinois Gov JB Pritzker argued Trump 'often foments' political violence through his rhetoric and Jan 6 pardons

 
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