College Basketball 2025-26 Season Thread - Kansas State fires Tang

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If you're not factoring in the talent gap you're being disingenuous.

dook should be outperforming everyone. Has scheyer ever coached a team without the most NBA talent on it?

Maybe he's a great coach but it's really hard to hand that to him when he starts every game with the better team.
I believe your hatred of Duke is making you disingenuous on this topic. In college sports, talent acquisition is part of a coach's job. In terms of NBA talent, nobody has probably had more high end talent than Calipari. You could make a case that nobody had more high end NBA talent than Daan Smith in the 80s.


Winning a title is hard and the best team doesn't always do that in March Madness. They should have won it last year and didn't, so it's fair to ding him for that, IMO.


Say what you want about Scheyer, but I dont believe any of his high end recruits were known for their defense coming into college, yet he had consistently had a top 20 defense and top 5 the last 2 years. That's coaching.
 
Isn’t it the job of every program to accumulate talent and put the best possible product on the floor?

I think it’s important to remember that it’s not just acquiring the most talented players. It’s roster construction and how to utilize different players to their strengths. Something Scheyer has done awfully well. An example for this season is his utilization of Sarr, who’s become a defensive menace. Something he wasn’t really known for when he got to campus. The development of Nik Khamenia has also been impressive. He’s gone from unplayable to valuable role in the rotation. Duke doesn’t win last night without his contributions.

It’s an insult to both Hubert Davis and Jon Scheyer to suggest they don’t impact the results of their teams in any meaningful way.
I personally think they are about the same level coach and each has achieved pretty close to their talent level combined mined with their coaching experience . JS has such a distinct talent advantage that it's harder to evaluate him. He's in a unique situation.

Scheyer teaches the most gifted kids so his test scores should be the highest.

Hubert teaches the next level student, Honors kids. His results are less predictable. It's not unfair to say he's underachieved somewhat but he's in the ballpark.

In my opinion I do think if they switched students the scores would be about the same for both groups.

I could be 100% wrong but that's how I see it as of now.
 
You get derided because you routinely ignore plain and obvious facts and make a clown of yourself in doing so.

But it's not limited to just HD, you've done the same thing with LeBron James for well over a decade now.
And, yeah it turned out I was right about him.

Some of you really struggle with someone disagreeing with you. You might want to consider that it's possible that you are wrong.
 
Where are people being mean to the Duke fans on here? I must have missed it.

Again, Hubert is 5-6 against K and Scheyer with inferior talent. Clearly he is a better coach.
You missed it intentionally. A Duke fan posted something entirely innocuous and was met with something like "there's that Duke horseshit we have come to hate".
 
And, yeah it turned out I was right about him.

Some of you really struggle with someone disagreeing with you. You might want to consider that it's possible that you are wrong.
I have no problem with someone disagreeing with me and I freely acknowledge that I may be wrong.

But your arguments will never be the ones to show that I'm wrong because you so consistently fail basic logic and ignore basic facts.
 
I believe your hatred of Duke is making you disingenuous on this topic. In college sports, talent acquisition is part of a coach's job. In terms of NBA talent, nobody has probably had more high end talent than Calipari. You could make a case that nobody had more high end NBA talent than Daan Smith in the 80s.


Winning a title is hard and the best team doesn't always do that in March Madness. They should have won it last year and didn't, so it's fair to ding him for that, IMO.


Say what you want about Scheyer, but I dont believe any of his high end recruits were known for their defense coming into college, yet he had consistently had a top 20 defense and top 5 the last 2 years. That's coaching.
This is a completely different era though.

Do you think players are going to dook because of Scheyer? I'm skeptical.

And yes talent acquisition is the most important factor and dook is winning that by a mile. Maybe UNC can catch up to that, until they do they will be at a disadvantage regardless of who the coach is.
 
I've never said a disparaging word to our dark shade of blue folks on this board... Not on a personal level anyway. I've always engaged with them civilly, most especially in terms of politics. Heck, I have more in common with most of those than I do with some of these so-called Tar Heel fans. I have several so-called Tar Heel fans on super ignore. I don't think I have any d00k fans on ignore. I don't dislike them, personally. As a matter of fact, I have "liked" them and "liked" their comments on this board continually.

Now, have I cast aspersions on their basketball team and coaches? Probably. Do I think they've been buying players and hooking up players' families with sweetheart deals on houses and employment? Yes. Do I think they've always gotten the top class of HS players year after year since about 2012? Yes. Do I think it takes much of a coach to stay out of the way of those top level players and let them win games with their talent and skills? No. Have I always had a dislike for K as a coach and Scheyer as a player? Yes.

But it wasn't always that way with me and d00k. I actually rooted for them against Kentucky in 1978. Tinkerbell Banks Spanarkel and Giminski. I disliked State back then more-so than d00k.

But I always had a dislike for Bobby Knight, and when K came on board and I found out he was a Knight disciple... that was it. That's all I needed to have an immediate dislike, distrust, and detestable feeling toward K. And then of course the long-standing hatred of d00k from way back in the 40's 50's and 60's - which all Tar Heel fans need to recognize - helped me remember that d00k, as well as State, will always and forever be on my shit list.

And then K got the Olympic job and wouldn't relinquish in like forever. He unabashedly used that connection to coerce NBA level talent to d00k... but who could blame him? It was a natural occurrence and to be expected. But I didn't have to like the fact he gamed the system in that manner. And when K went the way of Calishady and started buying all the one and done players without any hint of trying to get them an education, but was simply using them - and allowing them to use d00k basketball as a spring board to the NBA - it was all too clear to me what was going on in Durham. Even some d00k fans themselves started to sour on the fact that d00k was nothing but a one and done factory and that they were no more legit than UK and Calishady in terms of integrity or an institution of higher education.

Fast forward to IC and all that B.S. - yes, it was super nice of the Devil's Den folk to welcome some of us over there to discuss politics - and only politics. (They drew the line in the sand sharp and clear in terms of any discussion of basketball or other sports related topics while we were there.) Which, as it turns out, we weren't there but just for a minute for a cuppa coffee because Rock quickly developed this killer site.

But at the end of the day... nothing personal d00kies... it's just basketball... we will always have our disdain for all things trump and maga.
 
I have no problem with someone disagreeing with me and I freely acknowledge that I may be wrong.

But your arguments will never be the ones to show that I'm wrong because you so consistently fail basic logic and ignore basic facts.
I'm not ignoring facts. I'm considering things that you don't. We don't think alike. That doesn't mean your thoughts are superior to mine. It means they are different.
 
Where are people being mean to the Duke fans on here? I must have missed it.

Again, Hubert is 5-6 against K and Scheyer with inferior talent. Clearly he is a better coach.
Why does Hubert have inferior talent? Dean was a great coach and that was because he almost always had great talent. Job No. 1, 2 and 3 for Hubert is talent acquisition.
 
When I was younger I thought that I hated dook players and Coach K. As I matured I realized that I didn't actually hate dook players or K. I just hate dook basketball...and Dahntay Jones.









(and also Lee Melchionni)
 
I've never said a disparaging word to our dark shade of blue folks on this board... Not on a personal level anyway. I've always engaged with them civilly, most especially in terms of politics. Heck, I have more in common with most of those than I do with some of these so-called Tar Heel fans. I have several so-called Tar Heel fans on super ignore. I don't think I have any d00k fans on ignore. I don't dislike them, personally. As a matter of fact, I have "liked" them and "liked" their comments on this board continually.

Now, have I cast aspersions on their basketball team and coaches? Probably. Do I think they've been buying players and hooking up players' families with sweetheart deals on houses and employment? Yes. Do I think they've always gotten the top class of HS players year after year since about 2012? Yes. Do I think it takes much of a coach to stay out of the way of those top level players and let them win games with their talent and skills? No. Have I always had a dislike for K as a coach and Scheyer as a player? Yes.

But it wasn't always that way with me and d00k. I actually rooted for them against Kentucky in 1978. Tinkerbell Banks Spanarkel and Giminski. I disliked State back then more-so than d00k.

But I always had a dislike for Bobby Knight, and when K came on board and I found out he was a Knight disciple... that was it. That's all I needed to have an immediate dislike, distrust, and detestable feeling toward K. And then of course the long-standing hatred of d00k from way back in the 40's 50's and 60's - which all Tar Heel fans need to recognize - helped me remember that d00k, as well as State, will always and forever be on my shit list.

And then K got the Olympic job and wouldn't relinquish in like forever. He unabashedly used that connection to coerce NBA level talent to d00k... but who could blame him? It was a natural occurrence and to be expected. But I didn't have to like the fact he gamed the system in that manner. And when K went the way of Calishady and started buying all the one and done players without any hint of trying to get them an education, but was simply using them - and allowing them to use d00k basketball as a spring board to the NBA - it was all too clear to me what was going on in Durham. Even some d00k fans themselves started to sour on the fact that d00k was nothing but a one and done factory and that they were no more legit than UK and Calishady in terms of integrity or an institution of higher education.

Fast forward to IC and all that B.S. - yes, it was super nice of the Devil's Den folk to welcome some of us over there to discuss politics - and only politics. (They drew the line in the sand sharp and clear in terms of any discussion of basketball or other sports related topics while we were there.) Which, as it turns out, we weren't there but just for a minute for a cuppa coffee because Rock quickly developed this killer site.

But at the end of the day... nothing personal d00kies... it's just basketball... we will always have our disdain for all things trump and maga.
Well said.

There's a bit of JCDing going on towards those who support Hubert. I see those folks getting personal more than anyone else.
 
It was a pretty mild "insult" on a UNC board.
I never said it was an insult. I said it was being a dick for no particularly good reason. And that it was. I think the Duke fans on this board have gone out of their way to be quiet when Duke gets bashed and that's not easy to do when you love your school. I am not saying anyone has to love Duke or praise Scheyer. I am, however, saying that when people have been cordial and respectful, we ought to do the same. The two dudes in your avatar would likely agree with that. I KNOW the one seated would.
 
I'm not ignoring facts. I'm considering things that you don't. We don't think alike. That doesn't mean your thoughts are superior to mine. It means they are different.
You certainly ignore facts or handwave away their importance on a regular basis.

For instance, on this very thread, you've yet to address the fact that Scheyer helped build the recruiting structure that has assisted him as HC while claiming that dook's recruiting advantage is the difference between HD and Scheyer.

That's why it's hard to take you seriously in these kinds of discussions.
 
I never said it was an insult. I said it was being a dick for no particularly good reason. And that it was. I think the Duke fans on this board have gone out of their way to be quiet when Duke gets bashed and that's not easy to do when you love your school. I am not saying anyone has to love Duke or praise Scheyer. I am, however, saying that when people have been cordial and respectful, we ought to do the same. The two dudes in your avatar would likely agree with that. I KNOW the one seated would.
I don't know, this a message board, this is dook/Carolina, a little chippiness shouldn't be taken too seriously, in my opinion.

I have no ill will towards this poster. They seem cool to me.
 
That's a UNC job, not just a Hubert job.
See, this part I just do not understand. From my experience working in recruiting (baseball admittedly is small time by comparison), it was all about how the coaching staff handled it. I don't recall anyone from the university ever being involved in our recruiting efforts other than the coaches and staff at Boshamer. The Rams Club has to provide the resources and admissions has to be cooperative but recruiting is 95% on the coaching staff to construct a roster.

And I know you see my commentary as anti-Hubert, but that's not true at all. I just feel that EVERYTHING you post about basketball goes back to some instant reaction that you need to leap to Coach Davis's defense. And as I have said, I recognize the behavior because I did it for Mike Fox for years on message boards.
 
See, this part I just do not understand. From my experience working in recruiting (baseball admittedly is small time by comparison), it was all about how the coaching staff handled it. I don't recall anyone from the university ever being involved in our recruiting efforts other than the coaches and staff at Boshamer. The Rams Club has to provide the resources and admissions has to be cooperative but recruiting is 95% on the coaching staff to construct a roster.

And I know you see my commentary as anti-Hubert, but that's not true at all. I just feel that EVERYTHING you post about basketball goes back to some instant reaction that you need to leap to Coach Davis's defense. And as I have said, I recognize the behavior because I did it for Mike Fox for years on message boards.
I agree that's how it used to be but I don't think that's the way it's been since the change.

It's more about the $ and perks now.

Maybe UNC can close the gap now that they've engaged.
 
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