College Basketball Thread 2024-25 Season (General)

[Zoo_View]

According to this article, it wasn't created until the Summer of 1979...

November 27, 2009 – NC Miscellany

Maybe the first Shrunken Head bumpersticker wasn’t until 1979.

My memory is that as loud and obnoxious junior high schoolers (maybe as early as 5th or 6th grade) we’d chant, “d00k is puke, Wake is fake, the team I hate is NC State!”

Fifth grade gets us to 1971-72 or so.

From 1972-1974, ncsulol dominated ACC basketball and the Neil McGeachy year at d00k was 1974. These years also coincided with the Lou Holtz years at State. State was THE rival, not d00k.

 

[dukeman92]

Not worth it for me to continue this any further.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter because I wanted you to get in... and with Iowa State losing Keshon Gilbert, you've got a decent shot at winning a couple games.

 

[Calheel]

You have obviously not been on the College Basketball subreddit. There is a lot of weeping and gnashing of teeth on there about our inclusion.

Correct. I should have added cbb reddit to my list. They have been fed Q1 is the only metric that matters for years.

But the thing about bubble outrage is that it lasts a few hours. No one will be talking about this today or really ever. Bubble outrage is such a silly, media-inspired thing. If you are bad enough to be in the bubble talk, then you have no basis for outrage about anything.

 

[CFordUNC]

I notice you left out WVU. Convenient. At some point WINS have to matter.

If Carolina were Watha State Directional College with the same resume... they'd be sitting home.

And you guys can sit here and finagle metric after metric to show that you belonged, but we all know if you felt that way at 5 pm yesterday, you wouldn't have been sweating bullets and/or not watching the show.

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter because I wanted you to get in... and with Iowa State losing Keshon Gilbert, you've got a decent shot at winning a couple games.

I do think most of what you say is absolutely correct. I definitely think UNC got the “blue blood benefit of the doubt” and I definitely think that Bubba Cunningham’s presence on the selection committee was probably a subtle influence. That is not at all to say that there was anything nefarious or untoward or anything like that- I fully trust and believe that all of the policies and procedures were followed with full integrity. But I definitely think his presence on the selection committee had at least some degree of impact.

The way that I felt yesterday morning about UNC making the field is the exact same way that I feel this morning. I would’ve been completely understanding if UNC had not made it, because I think there were definitely legitimate arguments against our inclusion. I would’ve also been completely understanding of the inclusion of UNC. I think there were completely compelling and valid arguments both ways. Pretty much all of the efficiency metrics said that UNC should have been in the field relative to the other bubble teams with whom we were competing for a spot; the absolutely embarrassingly awful Q1 metric suggested that we should not have been in the field.

I think if UNC was going to be included, this was the right way to do it: as the very last team into the field, who has to go to Dayton for the play in game, and whose inclusion was only made possible into the field because there were zero bid stealers. But had we been left out of the field, I would’ve been completely understanding and supportive of that as well. Ultimately it came down to the majority of the committee deciding that UNC being the best bubble team in six of the eight efficiency metrics was more important than UNC having the worst Q1 record of any tournament team since tracking that particular metric began.

But I do agree with you that UNC by any other name would probably not have been in the field. And I also appreciate, as a Duke fan, that you are glad that UNC is in the field because of what it means for the ACC. I think that’s pretty classy on your part!

 

[dukeman92]

I do think most of what you say is absolutely correct. I definitely think UNC got the “blue blood benefit of the doubt” and I definitely think that Bubba Cunningham’s presence on the selection committee was probably a subtle influence. That is not at all to say that there was anything nefarious or untoward or anything like that- I fully trust and believe that all of the policies and procedures were followed with full integrity. But I definitely think his presence on the selection committee had at least some degree of impact.

The way that I felt yesterday morning about UNC making the field is the exact same way that I feel this morning. I would’ve been completely understanding if UNC had not made it, because I think there were definitely legitimate arguments against our inclusion. I would’ve also been completely understanding of the inclusion of UNC. I think there were completely compelling and valid arguments both ways. Pretty much all of the efficiency metrics said that UNC should have been in the field relative to the other bubble teams with whom we were competing for a spot; the absolutely embarrassingly awful Q1 metric suggested that we should not have been in the field.

I think if UNC was going to be included, this was the right way to do it: as the very last team into the field, who has to go to Dayton for the play in game, and whose inclusion was only made possible into the field because there were zero bid stealers. But had we been left out of the field, I would’ve been completely understanding and supportive of that as well. Ultimately it came down to the majority of the committee deciding that UNC being the best bubble team in six of the eight efficiency metrics was more important than UNC having the worst Q1 record of any tournament team since tracking that particular metric began.

But I do agree with you that UNC by any other name would probably not have been in the field. And I also appreciate, as a Duke fan, that you are glad that UNC is in the field because of what it means for the ACC. I think that’s pretty classy on your part!

I pretty much agree with all this.

 

[aGDevil2k]

I am not upset UNC is in. Yall have to go to Dayton, which is basically the national Les Robinson invitational, and it helps (a little) the ACC's awful reputation.

That said, I feel West Virginia deserved it more.

 

[Heelsandeers]

WV was left out because of the DeVries injury and because their metrics are terrible

Still think they probably should’ve been in but I get it. The current iteration of that team is not good

 

[CFordUNC]

Something else that I really think helped tip the scale in UNC‘s favor relative to the other bubble teams against whom we were being compared – namely Indiana, Ohio State, and West Virginia- is that UNC won two games in its conference tournament whereas each of those other teams went 0-1. I think that when you have a bunch of bubble teams who all have respectively flawed resumes, it’s an easy thing for the selection committee to consider a team that won a couple of postseason games should get in over teams that did not.

 

[aGDevil2k]

WV was left out because of the DeVries injury and because their metrics are terrible

Still think they probably should’ve been in but I get it. The current iteration of that team is not good

Yeah I get that. At the end of the day, if you want to be in, don't let yourself be bad enough to be on the bubble.

 

[CFordUNC]

Yeah I get that. At the end of the day, if you want to be in, don't let yourself be bad enough to be on the bubble.

That’s exactly right. And that’s exactly what I would have said to other UNC fans if we had not gotten into the field. We left our fate completely in the hands of the selection committee- this time it happened to work out by the skin of our teeth. In the future, it probably won’t. At some point under this current coaching staff, Carolina is going to have to figure out a way to actually beat Q1 teams- we have been pretty bad in the aggregate over the last four years. I don’t think we are ever going to get this kind of benefit of the doubt again.

 

[dukeman92]

Something else that I really think helped tip the scale in UNC‘s favor relative to the other bubble teams against whom we were being compared – namely Indiana, Ohio State, and West Virginia- is that UNC won two games in its conference tournament whereas each of those other teams went 0-1. I think that when you have a bunch of bubble teams who all have respectively flawed resumes, it’s an easy thing for the selection committee to consider a team that won a couple of postseason games should get in over teams that did not.

They'll tell you the conference tournament games have little to no impact. They didn't make much difference for Auburn who've lost 3 of 4... I feel like Duke should have been the top overall seed, but I'm not up in arms about it because I like our draw better than theirs anyway. Their 8/9 game is TOUGH.

 

[farce©]

According to this article, it wasn't created until the Summer of 1979...

November 27, 2009 – NC Miscellany

Nah, that was a schoolyard chant when I was in middle school and that was the 60's when Vic Bubas was coaching at Duke. Those kids may have had the idea to put it on a bumper sticker but they didn't invent that chant in 1979.....I was well out of college by then and we were doing that chant before my voice changed. (Of course there were no Wake fans on our playground but the chant just wouldn't be the same without that line.)

 

[whatntarnation]

Strong out of conference scheduling matters. Thanks Bubble Cunningham.

 

[duluoz]

People can gnash their teeth all they want, and there’s a rightful claim for some teams like there pretty much always is, every year. But you can point to something valid on every resume and claim it’s the determining factor for in or out.

West Virginia got trounced by two tournament teams down the stretch of the season by 20+, and then lost to the WORST team in the conference in their first game in that tourney. #16 seed 14-20 Colorado beat them. You can NOT be a bubble team and finish that way. Don’t cry to me about West Virginia when they can’t beat one of the worst teams in a major conference at this point in the season.

The Heels rolled down the stretch and gave dook a scare in the regular season finale before dook pulled away in the last 1/4 of the game. And we all know they were in a position to beat them in the tourney game, when a fluke cost them a chance. Finishing 8-2 and those are the two losses, not to mention losing very close to teams like MSU, Florida, Kansas and others I’m probably forgetting… and it’s clear that not all “quad 1” losses (or wins) are created equally.

The eye test won out, even if it’s not an official metric and neither is the final 10 games, blah blah.

The clear *better, hotter* team of those bubble teams got in, and if you don’t believe that then you’re probably lying or biased.

 

[duluoz]

WV was left out because of the DeVries injury and because their metrics are terrible

Still think they probably should’ve been in but I get it. The current iteration of that team is not good

Yeah I forgot about Devries, and they said explicitly yesterday that player availability was a criterion that factored in.

More reason West Virginia didn’t get in. But a crappy Colorado team sealed their fate.

 

[Heelsandeers]

The eye test won out, even if it’s not an official metric and neither is the final 10 games, blah blah.

And I’m never mad at this

We’re talking about a bunch of teams with flawed resumes as a baseline

The teams who are probably the best and playing well as of late should get in

 

[mynameisbond]

Yeah I get that. At the end of the day, if you want to be in, don't let yourself be bad enough to be on the bubble.

I think Carolina's late season performance was a factor, in addition to the cachet of the name brand. I'm also glad UNC made it in.
I've been a Duke fan since Bill Foster was the coach and my spouse is a Div School alum. That doesn't mean I don't respect the Carolina team and its players and coaches. UNC's proud tradition and impact on the game and the conference is irrefutable. Some of our best and longest friends are Carolina grads and former athletes. We give each other hell.
I don't believe the ACC is deserving of the disrespect we've received. I expect the tournament game outcomes to support that opinion, as they did last year. The SEC has benefitted greatly from football money and its overall depth is formidable. They will still have surprising tournament casualties. Bank on it.

 

[mpaer]

I think Carolina's late season performance was a factor, in addition to the cachet of the name brand. I'm also glad UNC made it in.
I've been a Duke fan since Bill Foster was the coach and my spouse is a Div School alum. That doesn't mean I don't respect the Carolina team and its players and coaches. UNC's proud tradition and impact on the game and the conference is irrefutable. Some of our best and longest friends are Carolina grads and former athletes. We give each other hell.
I don't believe the ACC is deserving of the disrespect we've received. I expect the tournament game outcomes to support that opinion, as they did last year. The SEC has benefitted greatly from football money and its overall depth is formidable. They will still have surprising tournament casualties. Bank on it.

I really want 3-4 ACC teams in the Elite Eight

 

[dukeman92]

The SEC has benefitted greatly from football money and its overall depth is formidable. They will still have surprising tournament casualties. Bank on it.

Alabama better watch out for St. Mary's

 

[dukeman92]

Joe Lunardi is a doughnut but he makes a few points that I happen to agree with.

• West Virginia was robbed of a spot. The Mountaineers beat Gonzaga and Arizona in Maui. They also beat Kansas and Iowa State on the way to a 10-10 finish in the Big 12. That's more than enough when compared with many other teams in this field.
• Louisville as an 8-seed? Again, inconsistency from the committee rears its head. The Cardinals had a combined 15 Q1/Q2 wins and went 18-2 in the ACC. If North Carolina had done that, the Tar Heels might have been a 1-seed (wink, wink).
• The top eight teams -- Auburn, Duke, Houston, Florida, Tennessee, Alabama, Michigan State, St. John's -- are as strong as any group of 1- and 2-seeds I can remember. Collectively, this top eight has won 148 Q1/Q2 games. All could have been standalone 1-seeds in other seasons.