College Basketball Thread 2024-25 Season (General)

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Heelsandeers said:
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Since I was curious about this, I thought I'd post these stats for WVU...

NET: 51
KenPom: 53
BPI: 51
T-Rank: 34
SOS: 25
OOC SOS: 62
KPI: 48
SOR: 42
WAB: 42
OOC WAB: 23
Record: 19-13
Home: 13-4
Away: 4-7
Neutral: 2-2
Quad 1: 6-10
Quad 2: 4-3
Quad 3: 5-0

We're pretty clearly ahead of them on average on the Quality metrics (NET, KP, BPI, T-Rank) by a decent amount (32.5 for UNC vs. 47.25 for WVU). The SOS/OOC SOS is a wash between in-conference and OOC play, although on the whole you have to give a slight tip of the cap to WVU for the overall better SOS. The average on the Resume metrics (KPI, SOR, WAB) is a wash (44 for WVU vs 45 for UNC). They clearly have us in Q1 record, but it's pretty much a wash again if you look at Q1+Q2 with UNC at 9-12 & WVU at 10-13.

If you're judging UNC vs WVU, the two places you can clearly delineate between the two are Quality metrics & Q1 record.

I, personally, would weight the Quality metrics that take into account margin of victory, location, opponent strength for all games in a sophisticated way over Q1 that only accounts for W/L, location, and opponent strength for one subset of games in a crude way, but I understand that others may differ.
 
dukeman92 said:
Joe Lunardi is a doughnut but he makes a few points that I happen to agree with.

  • West Virginia was robbed of a spot. The Mountaineers beat Gonzaga and Arizona in Maui. They also beat Kansas and Iowa State on the way to a 10-10 finish in the Big 12. That's more than enough when compared with many other teams in this field.
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The problem for WVU is that the Committee stated they took DeVries injury into account and WVU's wins over Gonzaga and Arizona included DeVries in the lineup. KU and ISU are obviously good wins, but not enough to overcome their lower Quality metrics (which do include the games played with DeVries).
 
The Governor and AG of West Virginia held a press conference today to denounce the exclusion of WVU from the tournament and to announce an investigation into the selection of UNC into this year's tournament...



I guess if I led a state as shitty as West Virginia, I'd want to focus attention on anything else, as well.
 
SnoopRob said:
The Governor and AG of West Virginia held a press conference today to denounce the exclusion of WVU from the tournament and to announce an investigation into the selection of UNC into this year's tournament...



I guess if I led a state as shitty as West Virginia, I'd want to focus attention on anything else, as well.
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The NCAA does not need West Virginia, nor does any conference. If they want to pull this stunt, I would encourage the NCAA to tell them to find their own league.
 
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There is definitely a case to be made for WVU, but this is hardly the worst snub I’ve ever seen and this will go nowhere.

They just look silly, IMHO.
 
SnoopRob said:
The Governor and AG of West Virginia held a press conference today to denounce the exclusion of WVU from the tournament and to announce an investigation into the selection of UNC into this year's tournament...



I guess if I led a state as shitty as West Virginia, I'd want to focus attention on anything else, as well.
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Meanwhile the people of West Virginia are struggling to recover from the massive floods that occurred in February.
 
CFordUNC said:
That’s exactly right. And that’s exactly what I would have said to other UNC fans if we had not gotten into the field. We left our fate completely in the hands of the selection committee- this time it happened to work out by the skin of our teeth. In the future, it probably won’t. At some point under this current coaching staff, Carolina is going to have to figure out a way to actually beat Q1 teams- we have been pretty bad in the aggregate over the last four years. I don’t think we are ever going to get this kind of benefit of the doubt again.
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Even as bad as we’ve been - on aggregate vs Q1 teams, the past 4 years - we still whooped d00k’s arse and sent K packing on Senior Day and in his final game for good and forever in the FF, during that time frame. Nobody will ever be able to take that away.
 
The NET (NCAA Evaluation Tool) rankings in NCAA basketball consider game results, strength of schedule, game location, net offensive and defensive efficiency, and the quality of wins and losses to determine a team's overall strength and tournament resume. This is the NCAA's primary sorting tool for evaluating teams. The NET is designed to be most optimal in March, not in early December.

There it is. UNC’s NET is better than anyone else’s on the bubble. The entire NET thing is in place to measure and give defendable and objective criteria to split hairs between bubble teams.
If a team garners 3 or 4 Q1 W’s at home against NET ranked teams in the upper 30’s, that might not weigh much more - if any - than another team losing some Q1 games by single digits, away from home, against NET ranked teams 1-9.

If all of those Q1 losses were too give UNC such a black eye, why was the NET ranking 36? The best amongst the bubbles. How many teams in the tourney have a NET ranking worse than the Tar Heels #36?
 
SnoopRob said:
The Governor and AG of West Virginia held a press conference today to denounce the exclusion of WVU from the tournament and to announce an investigation into the selection of UNC into this year's tournament...



I guess if I led a state as shitty as West Virginia, I'd want to focus attention on anything else, as well.
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Because there's nothing more important for an elected official to worry about in a place like WV....
 
Centerpiece said:
The NET (NCAA Evaluation Tool) rankings in NCAA basketball consider game results, strength of schedule, game location, net offensive and defensive efficiency, and the quality of wins and losses to determine a team's overall strength and tournament resume. This is the NCAA's primary sorting tool for evaluating teams. The NET is designed to be most optimal in March, not in early December.

There it is. UNC’s NET is better than anyone else’s on the bubble. The entire NET thing is in place to measure and give defendable and objective criteria to split hairs between bubble teams.
If a team garners 3 or 4 Q1 W’s at home against NET ranked teams in the upper 30’s, that might not weigh much more - if any - than another team losing some Q1 games by single digits, away from home, against NET ranked teams 1-9.

If all of those Q1 losses were too give UNC such a black eye, why was the NET ranking 36? The best amongst the bubbles. How many teams in the tourney have a NET ranking worse than the Tar Heels #36?
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I'll answer my own question. Thirty. 30 teams in the NCAAT have a worse NET ranking than do the Heels. 30 teams.
West Va. - who didn't make it - has a NET of 51 and a record of 19-13. They didn't even make the 20 W plateau. Lost their one and only game in their own conference tourney. The only teams in the tournament who didn't reach 20 W's for the season are the low, mid-majors who lucked up and won their conference auto bid like LOLstate did last year (looking at you St. Francis, Alabama St., ) So, STFU West Va.

So if indeed the NET is the beginning, middle and end all of splitting these hairs amongst the bubbles... I really think the committee looked at Carolina's NET over-all and not just the Q1 games - which were mostly ALL away games and against top tier NET teams. not lowly ranked NET teams - for the most part.

UNC's NET is better than Utah St., Creighton, Texas, Arkansas, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Colorado St. , Vandy, Memphis. Teams who made it comfortably into the tournament without any bubbles. And our match up: San Diego St., checks in at #52

I'm done with the discussion. The committee got it right. The Heel's deserve to be in. Period. End of story.
 
The quad system is so stupid. Not all teams within a certain quad are remotely equal. You could have one team that plays 10 quad 1 games against top 10 teams and another team that plays 10 quad 1 games that consist of 3 home games vs. teams ranked between 25-30, 3 neutral court games vs. teams ranked games between 40-50, and 4 away games vs. teams ranked 60-75. And a home game vs. the #1 team is worth the same as a home game vs. the #30 team, but a home game vs. the #31 team is worth significantly less than a home game vs. the #30 team. An away game vs. the #1 team is worth the same as an away game vs. the #75 team, but an away game vs. the #76 team is worth significantly less than away game vs. the #75 team.
 
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Icky Mettle said:
The quad system is so stupid. Not all teams within a certain quad are remotely equal. You could have one team that plays 10 quad 1 games against top 10 teams and another team that plays 10 quad 1 games that consist of 3 home games vs. teams ranked between 25-30, 3 neutral court games vs. teams ranked games between 40-50, and 4 away game vs. teams ranked 60-75 games. And a home game vs. the #1 team is worth the same as a home game vs. the #30 team, but a home game vs. the #31 team is worth significantly less than a home game vs. the #30 team. An away game vs. the #1 team is worth the same as an away game vs. the #75 team, but an away game vs. the #76 team is worth significantly less than away game vs. the #75 team.
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And you have smaller schools that get in that don't play any quad 1 games but are in the tournament because they're the best teams from their conferences. If you are going to discredit bigger names like UNC due to their quad 1 record then it is only fair you do it to all the teams in the tournament.
 
Icky Mettle said:
The quad system is so stupid. Not all teams within a certain quad are remotely equal. You could have one team that plays 10 quad 1 games against top 10 teams and another team that plays 10 quad 1 games that consist of 3 home games vs. teams ranked between 25-30, 3 neutral court games vs. teams ranked games between 40-50, and 4 away game vs. teams ranked 60-75 games. And a home game vs. the #1 team is worth the same as a home game vs. the #30 team, but a home game vs. the #31 team is worth significantly less than a home game vs. the #30 team. An away game vs. the #1 team is worth the same as an away game vs. the #75 team, but an away game vs. the #76 team is worth significantly less than away game vs. the #75 team.
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Yep. Our NET is so high despite the ACC being so weak in part because of our murderous OOC schedule. Eight of our Quad 1 losses were against the top 11 teams in the NET. Not all quad 1 games are alike. I am not at all satisfied with the awful record against Q1 teams at all, but the winging is ridiculous at this point — and a lot of the same outraged prognosticators are picking us to win 1-3 games in the tournament.
 
It means nada unless we take care of business tomorrow night in Dayton. Win that game. Prove the Committee got it right. Enough with the hand wringing. Just win baby.
 
nrsair said:
Meanwhile the people of West Virginia are struggling to recover from the massive floods that occurred in February.
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And it's things like that - as well as the massive levels of poverty and unemployment and environmental damage caused by generations of coal mining and lots of other issues - that lead WV politicians to try and divert the public's attention by pulling stunts like this. And that's all this is, a publicity stunt. Even the governor likely knows that this will go nowhere, but thinks it will hopefully salve some of his constituent's wounded pride and focus their anger on the NCAA and UNC instead of people like him.
 
Mulberry Heel said:
And it's things like that - as well as the massive levels of poverty and unemployment and environmental damage caused by generations of coal mining and lots of other issues - that lead WV politicians to try and divert the public's attention by pulling stunts like this. And that's all this is, a publicity stunt. Even the governor likely knows that this will go nowhere, but thinks it will hopefully salve some of his constituent's wounded pride and focus their anger on the NCAA and UNC instead of people like him.
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In “man/woman on the street” interviews after the February floods in West Virginia, the common threads were:
  • we delivered for Trump, he’ll deliver for us
  • We’re from Miscellaneous Hollow, we take care of one another
  • They took our coal
  • They took our timber
  • Lots of “God will deliver; Praise Jesus”
  • No expectation of help from FEMA
  • Trump Administration was slow to declare emergency
 
Zoo_View said:
In “man/woman on the street” interviews after the February floods in West Virginia, the common threads were:
  • we delivered for Trump, he’ll deliver for us
  • We’re from Miscellaneous Hollow, we take care of one another
  • They took our coal
  • They took our timber
  • Lots of “God will deliver; Praise Jesus”
  • No expectation of help from FEMA
  • Trump Administration was slow to declare emergency
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Oh, he's delivering for them, all right - DOGE is closing a large federal agency office in Parkersburg, WV and over 2,000 people in town will lose their jobs. The office complex is literally the last major employer of any decent jobs in town, and with it closing Parkersburg economically will be a dead zone. And yet the town voted heavily for Trump, and there was a large article recently in which those who are being fired said that while they were all for cutting government waste, they couldn't understand why Trump & Musk & DOGE would be cutting their jobs. I guess now they'll have a lot more time to go to church and pray to Republican Jesus to restore their dying town to life. And given how much federal assistance and jobs goes to WV, I'm sure that those folks in Parkersburg are only the first wave of many in that state who will soon be in the same situation.
 
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