Coping with depression...

[duluoz]

So, is there something I'm missing in this puzzle or is it just a matter of getting over myself and moving on? I can deal with being unhappy personally. I just hate it for those around me. They don't deserve this version.

Hopefully you don’t take this the wrong way, but seems to me that what you’re missing in the puzzle is humility. I don’t know exactly what you’ve tried so far or experienced, but you seem to have shot everything down and painted yourself into a corner where you’re convinced nothing will work for you. There’s clearly a high level of frustration that is clouding your approach to any treatment or measures, and there’s a good chance it was there going in. Which of course means any measure you try will likely be predisposed and doomed to something short of real benefit. Self-fulfilling prophecies and all.

Where the humility comes in is to ask yourself whether you’ve actually, objectively put in substantial effort to explore the more common treatment approaches, and leave no stone unturned until you find the blend of measures that helps at all. That same blend may not help forever, and so you may need to keep searching and tweaking and evolving. As everyone has said and you already know, it’s a very individualized process and challenge.

Again, no offense and just as I’m perceiving this… but the mindset of “been there, bought the t-shirt” sounds dismissive in a way that makes me wonder what the level of commitment to that search has actually been.

A good example is the breathing or meditation you mention — that’s something that is based in hard medical science. If anyone approaches that in the right way and practices it in the right way, it has measurable benefits. Even for the 10 minutes you mention. It’s not going to be the same experience every time though, and your circumstances and mindset aren’t going to be in the right place for it to be super effective every time. Especially starting out. But the humility comes in yielding to the science and how long those types of practices have endured, and the vast numbers of people they’ve helped, and in sticking with it even on the days it feels like total bullshit to you. As the habit sets in and the practice gets cultivated, people feel the benefits more clearly. Sure it takes some time, but other than that you have nothing to lose.

But if someone thinks they already know all the answers and is convinced there are no answers, then that’s obviously not a great starting point to getting better. You gotta recognize that. Regardless of how tough it may be to flip that humility switch on, that’s what will ultimately be required to take steps in the right direction.

 

[Paine]

Hopefully you don’t take this the wrong way, but seems to me that what you’re missing in the puzzle is humility. I don’t know exactly what you’ve tried so far or experienced, but you seem to have shot everything down and painted yourself into a corner where you’re convinced nothing will work for you. There’s clearly a high level of frustration that is clouding your approach to any treatment or measures, and there’s a good chance it was there going in. Which of course means any measure you try will likely be predisposed and doomed to something short of real benefit. Self-fulfilling prophecies and all.

Where the humility comes in is to ask yourself whether you’ve actually, objectively put in substantial effort to explore the more common treatment approaches, and leave no stone unturned until you find the blend of measures that helps at all. That same blend may not help forever, and so you may need to keep searching and tweaking and evolving. As everyone has said and you already know, it’s a very individualized process and challenge.

Again, no offense and just as I’m perceiving this… but the mindset of “been there, bought the t-shirt” sounds dismissive in a way that makes me wonder what the level of commitment to that search has actually been.

A good example is the breathing or meditation you mention — that’s something that is based in hard medical science. If anyone approaches that in the right way and practices it in the right way, it has measurable benefits. Even for the 10 minutes you mention. It’s not going to be the same experience every time though, and your circumstances and mindset aren’t going to be in the right place for it to be super effective every time. Especially starting out. But the humility comes in yielding to the science and how long those types of practices have endured, and the vast numbers of people they’ve helped, and in sticking with it even on the days it feels like total bullshit to you. As the habit sets in and the practice gets cultivated, people feel the benefits more clearly. Sure it takes some time, but other than that you have nothing to lose.

But if someone thinks they already know all the answers and is convinced there are no answers, then that’s obviously not a great starting point to getting better. You gotta recognize that. Regardless of how tough it may be to flip that humility switch on, that’s what will ultimately be required to take steps in the right direction.

Seconded. I tried CBT with multiple therapists before I found one that worked for me. Same for medication. I’ve never dealt with depression besides as a side effect from my real issue of anxiety.

I was dismissive of how effective therapy could be before I recently gave it another go and it actually worked wonders this time around.

 

[superrific]

Seconded. I tried CBT with multiple therapists before I found one that worked for me. Same for medication. I’ve never dealt with depression besides as a side effect from my real issue of anxiety.

CBT is a good therapy for anxiety. It's not for everyone. I find it fucking irritating as hell because it's so simplistic. It's like reading a children's book. Which is how it's supposed to be (both because it's supposed to be available for everyone, not just those with advanced degrees; and also part of the discipline is the tolerance for frustration). But for a lot of people, it works.

It's better for anxiety than depression, in my opinion.

Also, note that a lot of what is called CBT is not actually CBT. It's like taco meat. It's vaguely inspired by CBT principles. I would avoid that stuff (and I wonder if some of the CBT that didn't work for you fell under this rubric). Anyone trying it should make sure they are seeing a fully licensed practitioner, and should ask if the therapy approach is CBT proper. IIRC there are standardized materials used in CBT (it was a long time ago) and if those aren't being used -- or no adequate explanation for not using them is given -- then it might not be real CBT.

 

[Geisterfahrer]

No, no, no. If you are traveling Jamaica for a mental health treatment, you're not doing it right. In part that's because it's difficult to distinguish feeling better from just being in Jamaica.

Psilocybin therapy has some potential but it's novel, not well understood, and has not been approved in the US for good reasons. Also, there is no reliable training for "supervised shroom therapy" because, again, it's not well understood how it works. What I've heard is that the "supervised therapy" is often little more than trying to prevent a bad trip.

It’s a shame MDMA was not approved for therapeutic use. It really is a miracle drug.

 

[HandsonFire]

Religious at all? I suffered from GAD (generalized anxiety disorder) for a while, the low dose Sertraline plus the desire to become more involved in my faith helped a ton. More Jesus helped me, maybe it could help you in addition to some other methods.

This is what works for me.

 

[finesse]

This is what works for me.

Do you have to have a lot less rock and roll?

 

[UNCatTech]

I'm in a men's group and one of the participants is going down to Jamaica for a supervised psilocybin therapy session. His brother in-law who's a type A straight laced guy told him it changed his life and really helped. Maybe worth a look?

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www.thelancet.com

My daughter has had 3 supervised ketamine treatments. After the first one she said it was life changing.

 

[UNCatTech]

Outside of the therapists who frequent the board, I probably have more experience with this than anyone here. When I saw this, I DM'd the OP to reach out and offer thoughts and gather a bit of information. The DM remains unanswered. His other posts on the thread have been defensive and not indicative of someone genuinely looking for assistance -- although in fairness, much of the advice was nonsense about using drugs to cure depression. He seems to want to complain, which is fine but the thread title should be edited to more accurately capture what the thread is actually about.

There's nothing wrong with venting if that is what one needs at this time.

 

[UNCatTech]

You're a real piece of work. There's a reason I've told you before that I don't engage with you.

Don't let any poster bother you, focus on the advise and keep working on finding what helps you.

I get caught up in this from time to time. I've deleted so many post after cursing someone out. I like the delete on this board ask for a reason to delete. I normally answer: "It's just not worth it".

Either way, I wish you the best on this journey. Keep putting in the work, you will find the solution, and each step on the path has a potential of making things better.

 

[UNCatTech]

The poster is free to do whatever he wants. If it were me, I would at least say "thank you" even if I didn't want to engage. And what narrative am I trying to control?

Here's how I look at it: you can't make progress without accepting your position and condition. My post was designed in part to root that out. If the poster wants to address his depression, then he needs to a) accept that he is a depressed individual and then b) take measures that depressed individuals take to help themselves. Otherwise, he's just complaining (which is actually a terrible, terrible way of coping with depression).

This is exceedingly common behavior, of course. My wife sees patients all the time who give some variant of the "nothing ever works for me; I've seen MDs before and it was useless." And it turns out that the MD recommended one drug, it didn't work very well, and the patient decided to bail on the whole process. Or the patient didn't take the medication regularly, and then bailed. So on and so forth. I did some of that when I was really struggling two decades ago.

What every depressed person needs is someone who will kick their ass asking them if they want to get better. Ideally, that someone isn't posting on a message board. I don't think I'm the best person to deliver that message. But if it's not delivered at all, then there will be no progress.

Super, you are one of my favorite posters. I bet your wife could help with the delivery on this thread.

Yes, you intend to be helpful, but sometimes the delivery can kill that intent.

And my opinion on complaining, venting, talking, what ever one wants to call it is that it can be helpful. Get it out then let your mind settle in for constructive discussion.

I personally find that what starts as complaining often evolves into understanding and progress, especially if the person listening is good at directing the conversation.

 

[UNCatTech]

What you're looking for is a piece of work. You aren't going to find solutions to your problems from people who have never had an emotional disturbance in their lives.

You know I agree with this from my experience.

My daughter has had over a decade of different treatments. To hear her talk to the employees that she manages now, I think she could be a good therapist.

 

[UNCatTech]

It’s a shame MDMA was not approved for therapeutic use. It really is a miracle drug.

This is what works for me.

I'm glad this worked for you and the other poster than mentioned it.

This is a great example of finding what works personally.

My experience with religion caused me more anxiety than most anything else in my life. It always made me feel as if I were not living up to some unobtainable standard.

 

[superrific]

There's nothing wrong with venting if that is what one needs at this time.

I believe I said that was fine.

 

[LosPollosHermanos]

No, no, no. If you are traveling Jamaica for a mental health treatment, you're not doing it right. In part that's because it's difficult to distinguish feeling better from just being in Jamaica.

Psilocybin therapy has some potential but it's novel, not well understood, and has not been approved in the US for good reasons. Also, there is no reliable training for "supervised shroom therapy" because, again, it's not well understood how it works. What I've heard is that the "supervised therapy" is often little more than trying to prevent a bad trip.

Dude there was a 60 minutes on this and it seems very promising. The worst thing that can happen is a bad trip. Why not try it if nothing else has worked? There are studies being conducted in Oregon. I know the medical profession doesn't want word to get out that you can trip your way out of chronic depression.

 

[superrific]

Dude there was a 60 minutes on this and it seems very promising. The worst thing that can happen is a bad trip. Why not try it if nothing else has worked? There are studies being conducted in Oregon. I know the medical profession doesn't want word to get out that you can trip your way out of chronic depression.

The medical profession doesn't care about that. Of that I am quite certain. Maybe Big Pharma, but psychiatrists don't care. They will prescribe whatever works, whether it's psilocybin or something else.

I'm aware of that research. But there are substantial problems with it. First, it's almost impossible to double blind because there's no placebo. People can tell if they've been given the sugar pill or the mescaline. This was a problem with the MDMA trial as well. Second, there's a lot of magic done by the phrase "in controlled conditions with supportive psychotherapy" -- both terms being relatively undefined and there are in particular no standards for what constitutes supportive pscyhotherapy.

Third, a bad trip isn't the only or primary risk. It might be for people who aren't taking other psychiatric or mood-altering drugs. But psilocybin has interaction effects with other drugs and those aren't well understood. Not at all.

I'm in favor of additional research, but additional research is definitely necessary. If it wasn't, the FDA would have approved it.

 

[finesse]

The medical profession doesn't care about that. Of that I am quite certain. Maybe Big Pharma, but psychiatrists don't care. They will prescribe whatever works, whether it's psilocybin or something else.

I'm aware of that research. But there are substantial problems with it. First, it's almost impossible to double blind because there's no placebo. People can tell if they've been given the sugar pill or the mescaline. This was a problem with the MDMA trial as well. Second, there's a lot of magic done by the phrase "in controlled conditions with supportive psychotherapy" -- both terms being relatively undefined and there are in particular no standards for what constitutes supportive pscyhotherapy.

Third, a bad trip isn't the only or primary risk. It might be for people who aren't taking other psychiatric or mood-altering drugs. But psilocybin has interaction effects with other drugs and those aren't well understood. Not at all.

I'm in favor of additional research, but additional research is definitely necessary. If it wasn't, the FDA would have approved it.

The FDA is fighting against the opinion of many Christians that too many people will have fun with it if restrictions are relaxed. The research on all that class of drugs and marijuana is still caught up in the Reefer Madness madness.

 

[Centerpiece]

So for those who are experienced in such things, how does one cope? I'm super aware of it and I've tried traditional methods like a therapist or antidepressants. I honestly think both of those either make me worse or more annoyed. Talking things out is not my style. I just get annoyed with the questions and even more annoyed with the strategies/etc. No, breathing doesn't change my mood. Focusing on something for 10 minutes isn't going to help. Been there, tried it, got the t-shirt, and it doesn't work. Anti-depressants just make me feel completely void and I'd rather be depressed.

So, is there something I'm missing in this puzzle or is it just a matter of getting over myself and moving on? I can deal with being unhappy personally. I just hate it for those around me. They don't deserve this version.

By the way, I'm posting this here because this is pretty much my only social outlet. I have 10's of thousands of people I can interact with on social media, but that's an audience, not a sounding board. Just growing weary of having to be the entertainer on a daily basis I suppose while I internally feel like anything but one.

Hey Cool Cat - my wife suffers from depression. It is seriously no joke. She sees a therapist and SHE SIMPLY MUST BE ON THE RIGHT MEDS AND TAKE THEM EVERY DAY! The meds have side effects - of course - and finding the right one and the right dosage is dodgy... and coming off one, and trying another, is also very dodgy - even dangerous. BUT SHE HAS TO TAKE THE MEDS!!! IT HELPS HER COPE.

Listen: I have hypertension and a heart issue (SVT which leads to Afib - I've had a RF Ablation). I'm on 2 meds - 1 for BP, the other for heart rhythm... IF I DON'T TAKE MY MEDS, I CAN TELL... THE MEDS HELP MY BODY COPE WITH MY ISSUES. I simply must take the meds. They help. Period. Full stop.

My wife MUST TAKE HER ANTI-DEPRESSION MEDS, THEY HELP HER BODY/MIND COPE!

I can't stress this enough. If you don't want to talk it out with a therapist, ok, I get it. BUT SOME PEOPLE SIMPLY HAVE TO BE ON THEIR MEDS OR IT FUCKS THEM UP.

PLEASE, please talk with you doc, get a second opinion, try a new med, whatever... but find one that WORKS FOR YOU and stick with that med. You will probably have to take it every day for the rest of your life... but TAKE THE DAMN MEDS!

 

[UNCatTech]

Dude there was a 60 minutes on this and it seems very promising. The worst thing that can happen is a bad trip. Why not try it if nothing else has worked? There are studies being conducted in Oregon. I know the medical profession doesn't want word to get out that you can trip your way out of chronic depression.

I've read several positive things about this. The coaching during the medication seems to be an important part. Also heard an interesting pod cast about how they cant use traditional methods of clinical trials, since the placebo is noticeably different.

 

[UNCatTech]

The FDA is fighting against the opinion of many Christians that too many people will have fun with it if restrictions are relaxed. The research on all that class of drugs and marijuana is still caught up in the Reefer Madness madness.

Exactly, don't want any chance that people might just have fun.

 

[finesse]

missionary- Someone who knows someone somewhere is having a good time and they have to find them and stop it.