Covid Thread | Pandemic started Five Years Ago

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Also just reviewed this:


I see nothing extraordinary there. Basically, it shows: a scientist (Anderson) having concerns about the furin cleavage site and tells Fauci that. Fauci takes the concern seriously and convenes a call with other experts. They evaluate the evidence and decide the furin cleavage site is not meaningful. Anderson looks at the evidence and is convinced.

That's the way things are supposed to work. The idea that it's somehow an indictment of Anderson that he changed his mind when presented with data -- what a comment on our culture today. Anderson did what any responsible scientists SHOULD do. Now we are extending anti-flip-flopping norms (which are ludicrous in general) to science?

Zeynep's editorial makes me ill. She should stop writing about shit she doesn't understand in the slightest. Nothing good can come from a sociologist cosplaying as a molecular virologist.
 
HintonJamesHeel said:
It was either a lab leak or it was natural in origin but the anger at China should only be because of their response. They didn’t plan the lab leak. They wouldn’t have planned the natural. They did mislead the world on severity and hoarded supplies while saying it wasn’t a big deal. Those are just facts.

I will also never understand why folks believe an accidental lab leak (hence the word leak) is more racist than blaming the sanitation at wet markets. The 1% of folks who think it was a bioweapon released on purpose are exactly that - 1%.

The mistakes with COVID are too numerous for anyone to list but ultimately it’s the fact that science evolves and knowledge comes along. The fact that people still believe there were no mistakes with complete hindsight are crazy.
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Trump's mishandling of COVID caused the needless deaths of over one million Americans. Also, consider that presidents' second terms are generally worse than their first. How many people will Trump kill this time around? Wrap your head around that.
 
HintonJamesHeel said:
It was either a lab leak or it was natural in origin but the anger at China should only be because of their response. They didn’t plan the lab leak. They wouldn’t have planned the natural. They did mislead the world on severity and hoarded supplies while saying it wasn’t a big deal. Those are just facts.

I will also never understand why folks believe an accidental lab leak (hence the word leak) is more racist than blaming the sanitation at wet markets. The 1% of folks who think it was a bioweapon released on purpose are exactly that - 1%.

The mistakes with COVID are too numerous for anyone to list but ultimately it’s the fact that science evolves and knowledge comes along. The fact that people still believe there were no mistakes with complete hindsight are crazy.
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If it was a lab leak, China didn't plan it, but the scientists were very sloppy with their research protocols. That's why I think that acknowledging that it may very well have been a lab leak is important. It helps underscore the need to do this kind of research in more secure conditions and also foster debate on whether we should be doing this sort of research at all. And if it's ever definitively proven there was a lab leak, the conversations become even more important.

I agree that it's very, very unlikely that there was an intentional release of a bio weapon. China got hit pretty hard too. I think its possible that the research was for a bioweapon, but consider it unlikely. Too many eyes on it.
 
UNCMSinLS said:
Trump's mishandling of COVID caused the needless deaths of over one million Americans. Also, consider that presidents' second terms are generally worse than their first. How many people will Trump kill this time around? Wrap your head around that.
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No, the virus caused the deaths. If we learned anything about Covid it was everyone was going to get it. The goal was to get the vaccine and Trump and the government had Warp Speed and he got vaccinated as well. People made individual choices and a lot of paid for it.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
If it was a lab leak, China didn't plan it, but the scientists were very sloppy with their research protocols. That's why I think that acknowledging that it may very well have been a lab leak is important. It helps underscore the need to do this kind of research in more secure conditions and also foster debate on whether we should be doing this sort of research at all. And if it's ever definitively proven there was a lab leak, the conversations become even more important.

I agree that it's very, very unlikely that there was an intentional release of a bio weapon. China got hit pretty hard too. I think its possible that the research was for a bioweapon, but consider it unlikely. Too many eyes on it.
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The other reason it is important to nail down this issue is to determine whether it is in fact technically possible to engineer a virus that can cause a worldwide pandemic. We can speculate that a bioweapon is possible, but we don't know whether it is. If lab leak were confirmed, it would definitively answer that it is possible to engineer a bioweapon.
 
Calheel said:
The other reason it is important to nail down this issue is to determine whether it is in fact technically possible to engineer a virus that can cause a worldwide pandemic. We can speculate that a bioweapon is possible, but we don't know whether it is. If lab leak were confirmed, it would definitively answer that it is possible to engineer a bioweapon.
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I think it’s pretty clear it is possible. Doesn’t mean Covid is one but it’s obvious that it’s possible.
 
HintonJamesHeel said:
I think it’s pretty clear it is possible. Doesn’t mean Covid is one but it’s obvious that it’s possible.
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Is it? I don't really know enough to determine if you can actually manipulate a virus synthetically.

One possible scenario, pointed out in the opinion piece, is that a scientist doing research on an animal may have been exposed to an airborne pathogen and then spread it accidentally. That would still be a lab leak, but doesn't necessarily mean it's an engineered bio weapon.

And of course a bio weapon doesn't have to be engineered. If you can identify a disease, create a cure or other protocols to keep it from infecting your population, and release it on your enemy's populations, it can be a pretty effective weapon.
 
HintonJamesHeel said:
I think it’s pretty clear it is possible. Doesn’t mean Covid is one but it’s obvious that it’s possible.
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We don't know if a virus manipulated through non-evolutionary methods can spread throughout the world. While you may think it is "pretty clear" and "obvious" that it is "possible," that is not exactly the kind of thing that can be ethically tested via the scientific method. Thus, there is significant value in nailing down the Covid origin issue to address this issue.
 
HintonJamesHeel said:
No, the virus caused the deaths. If we learned anything about Covid it was everyone was going to get it. The goal was to get the vaccine and Trump and the government had Warp Speed and he got vaccinated as well. People made individual choices and a lot of paid for it.
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Were you even alive five years ago? Trump advised people to not wear masks. He spoke about the curative effects of quack cures and getting back to places where the virus could spread. He was ambivalent about the vaccine and getting boosters. You sound as idiotic as Dr. Lynch.

P.S. - As for your stupid claim that "everyone was going to get it", I didn't get it, my wife didn't get it, my sister didn't get it, my niece didn't get it, my nephew didn't get it, several neighbors didn't get it. The common theme for the health of all these individuals? They didn't listen to you or our genocidal president. Again, answer the question - is Trump going to kill more than a million this term?
 
UNCMSinLS said:
Were you even alive five years ago? Trump advised people to not wear masks. He spoke about the curative effects of quack cures and getting back to places where the virus could spread. He was ambivalent about the vaccine and getting boosters. You sound as idiotic as Dr. Lynch.

P.S. - As for your stupid claim that "everyone was going to get it", I didn't get it, my wife didn't get it, my sister didn't get it, my niece didn't get it, my nephew didn't get it, several neighbors didn't get it. The common theme for the health of all these individuals? They didn't listen to you or our genocidal president. Again, answer the question - is Trump going to kill more than a million this term?
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You absolutely have gotten Covid. Lol that you don’t think did.
 
Calheel said:
We don't know if a virus manipulated through non-evolutionary methods can spread throughout the world. While you may think it is "pretty clear" and "obvious" that it is "possible," that is not exactly the kind of thing that can be ethically tested via the scientific method. Thus, there is significant value in nailing down the Covid origin issue to address this issue.
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What is "pretty clear", "obvious", and "possible" is that HintonJames is a maga idiot and a disgrace to the residence hall.
 
UNCMSinLS said:
What is "pretty clear", "obvious", and "possible" is that HintonJames is a maga idiot and a disgrace to the residence hall.
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I am a disgrace but not for that reason.

I think Covid is complex. I think so much should have been done differently and I don’t blame really anyone but China on the coverup. I think Fauci was outstanding in a very rough spot. Trump was Trump. Loony and maybe wanting to do good but he’s so stupid he just couldn’t allow himself to do good. I think we made a shit ton of mistakes but very few were ill-intentioned.
 
UNCMSinLS said:
LOL. You got it because you were an idiot. I didn't because I'm not. Thankfully (???) you didn't die so we can enjoy your science-free takes on this board.
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I have had four shots and I have never tested positive or felt sick. I’ve had Covid. You need to educate yourself on how contagious the virus is. You’ve had it. Just like Trump and Biden and Harris and 99% of the country.

I wasn’t an idiot for getting a virus that’s so contagious you just have to live. I guess you could have avoided if you never leave the house lol.
 
HintonJamesHeel said:
I am a disgrace but not for that reason.

I think Covid is complex. I think so much should have been done differently and I don’t blame really anyone but China on the coverup. I think Fauci was outstanding in a very rough spot. Trump was Trump. Loony and maybe wanting to do good but he’s so stupid he just couldn’t allow himself to do good. I think we made a shit ton of mistakes but very few were ill-intentioned.
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The problem is millions of maga idiots listened to Trump and followed his advice. Many of those died or permanently maimed themselves. If they had listened to the doctors, scientists, and virologists I listened to, they'd be fine now. I do agree with you that Trump is "loony" and "stupid". He also has blood on his hands. Again, how many more is he going to kill this term?
 
UNCMSinLS said:
The problem is millions of maga idiots listened to Trump and followed his advice. Many of those died or permanently maimed themselves. If they had listened to the doctors, scientists, and virologists I listened to, they'd be fine now. I do agree with you that Trump is "loony" and "stupid". He also has blood on his hands. Again, how many more is he going to kill this term?
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They made choices and dumb ones at that.
 
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