CURRENT EVENTS MAY 19 -21

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ZZLPHeels said:
Donald Trump: convicted of 34 felonies and tried to overturn an election that he lost.

I’ll take the Dems.
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Weird that you'll guys defend actual criminals, but believe sham court cases. Can't focus on actual policy, what Trump is doing. Ms13 good, Trump bad. You guys are a joke.
 
superrific said:
You've misidentified the anger.

I don't give a fuck about $5M -- it's not even a drop in the ocean compared to the federal budget. I don't care if Babbitt gets compensated after a bunch of bullshit because our tort system commonly rewards pieces of shit.

I do care about the rule of law and the corruption. In the state proceedings in MO and other places, there was an adversarial relationship between the parties; the family wanted to be paid, the state did not want to pay. Settlements arise out of that sort of situation all the time. At no point has there been a suggestion that anyone on the inside was trying to funnel Mike Brown's family cash.

Contrast to this situation, where literally Trump is on Babbitt's side. He's using the federal government as life insurance for his stormtroopers. He's already pardoned his goons. He's talked about paying them reparations. He is paying them reparations here. The point is to show his people that there will be no consequences to them for acting like Trump's private paramilitary. And that is unpardonable, to invoke a grim pun.

Now, if you want to focus exclusively on the payout and ignore the process, I mean it's your right but it speaks volumes about your priorities. It's obvious that you have loads of resentment toward Mike Brown -- you've referred to him on many occasions -- and fine, you're allowed to have that opinion. When you bring him up in this context, your agenda and your grievances become obvious. Ball is in your court to clarify.
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I think you are right about everything you posted except for the last paragraph. Yes, I believe that Trump is trying to create a system in which his supporters are rewarded for breaking the law for him. The payment to Babbit's family and the January 6th pardons make that clear, IMO. He's a fascist wannabe dictator and our only halfway saving grace is that he is old and likely unhealthy. I've never defended Trump on here and don't think I ever will. I've made it clear how I feel about him.

The reason I brought up Brown is not because I'm arguing against the points you have made above. That wasn't the argument I was trying to make. My argument was much more superficial. There was a lot of outrage not because of what you said but because Babbit was a criminal who was justifiably shot and killed while committing a crime. This brought out the question, "how is her family getting paid when she was the one in the wrong?" That's what brought me to the Brown situation. The motivations may be different, but the results are nearly identical.

You are right that I have brought up that case several times on here. I guess I still feel some type of way towards that whole event because my asking people to hold up on their rush to judgement in that situation is what got me relentlessly harassed and eventually driven away from the ZZL. But that's another subject entirely.

Regardless, in this particular situation we don't appear to disagree. We're not arguing against each other. We just have different arguments.
 
Silence Dogood said:
Weird that you'll guys defend actual criminals, but believe sham court cases. Can't focus on actual policy, what Trump is doing. Ms13 good, Trump bad. You guys are a joke.
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Weird how you guys shout "law and order" while completely slobbering over an actual convicted felon who pardoned people who attacked the government on his behalf.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
Weird how you guys shout "law and order" while completely slobbering over an actual convicted felon who pardoned people who attacked the government on his behalf.
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Showing up and protesting in DC is completely legal. Why were DC police escorting people in the building? Why was antifa there? Why did Pelosi deny the national guard? Stay defending corruption!
 
Silence Dogood said:
Showing up and protesting in DC is completely legal. Why were DC police escorting people in the building? Why was antifa there? Why did Pelosi deny the national guard? Stay defending corruption!
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Protesting is absolutely legal. Violently attacking law enforcement officers while forcing your way into a secured (and off-limits) building in an attempt to steal an election because you got conned by an orange turd is not. Face it: you don't care about law and order. You voted for a convicted felon.

I'll say that again: You voted for a convicted felon.

You are in a cult. It isn't too late to get out. Orange Donnie doesn't care about you.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
Protesting is absolutely legal. Violently attacking law enforcement officers while forcing your way into a secured (and off-limits) building in an attempt to steal an election because you got conned by an orange turd is not. Face it: you don't care about law and order. You voted for a convicted felon.

I'll say that again: You voted for a convicted felon.

You are in a cult. It isn't too late to get out. Orange Donnie doesn't care about you.
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Promoting law and order at the border is a better option than what you're providing. You're focused on character assassinations and not actual policy. Trumps fake felony convictions don't affect me. Use your brain!
 
Silence Dogood said:
Promoting law and order at the border is a better option than what you're providing. You're focused on character assassinations and not actual policy. Trumps fake felony convictions don't affect me. Use your brain!
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There's nothing "fake" about those convictions. They are as real as Donny's spray tan. And there is literally nothing you can do about it.

So, once again: You voted for a convicted felon.

Your "law and order" guy is guilty of 34 felonies. He is a felon now and will be a felon for the rest of his life.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
I think you are right about everything you posted except for the last paragraph. Yes, I believe that Trump is trying to create a system in which his supporters are rewarded for breaking the law for him. The payment to Babbit's family and the January 6th pardons make that clear, IMO. He's a fascist wannabe dictator and our only halfway saving grace is that he is old and likely unhealthy. I've never defended Trump on here and don't think I ever will. I've made it clear how I feel about him.

The reason I brought up Brown is not because I'm arguing against the points you have made above. That wasn't the argument I was trying to make. My argument was much more superficial. There was a lot of outrage not because of what you said but because Babbit was a criminal who was justifiably shot and killed while committing a crime. This brought out the question, "how is her family getting paid when she was the one in the wrong?" That's what brought me to the Brown situation. The motivations may be different, but the results are nearly identical.

You are right that I have brought up that case several times on here. I guess I still feel some type of way towards that whole event because my asking people to hold up on their rush to judgement in that situation is what got me relentlessly harassed and eventually driven away from the ZZL. But that's another subject entirely.

Regardless, in this particular situation we don't appear to disagree. We're not arguing against each other. We just have different arguments.
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1. I think people are focusing on the "justifiably shot because she's a criminal" because it shows that her case is incredibly weak. I don't know anything about Brown's lawsuit but I'm extremely confident that Babbitt would lose in court. The factual situation with Mike Brown is more contested because there were eyewitnesses supporting part of his estate's story and would at a minimum testify that Brown was shot at while fleeing (though those bullets apparently missed). Babbit's encounter was caught on video. She was literally in the process of invading the Capitol.

Legally speaking the cases are different. Suing the federal government in a situation like this has its own challenges. There's no way she would have won a jury verdict in DC. The venue is different. That's why people are so furious, and let's not forget that the background fascism is very much at issue.

2. I can't comment on the ZZL. It's true that on this board, you tend to be reasonable when pressed. However, you might consider whether your initial postings contribute to negative perceptions of you. Maybe don't start with a maximalist position. Advance the most uncontroversial aspects of your thoughts first. Only then, having established bona fides of reasonableness, should you push further. Also, include caveats. Those are very helpful, in my view. You've probably noticed that I caveat my comments as much as anyone, despite being one of the most knowledgeable posters here.

If you had posted something like: "the fascism here from Trump is intolerable. On the narrow issue of whether she's being rewarded for her crimes, it seems to me -- not being a lawyer -- that our system often works that way for better or worse," the reception would have been very different, I think. It's really important to control your first impression, right? Let's say that you think there was a cover-up re: one of the space shuttle explosions and you have a good point to make there. The way to start that dialogue is to refer narrowly to that claim. If you start with "NASA has been covering things up since the fake moon landing and also these shuttle coverups" people are going to dismiss you as a crank without considering your opinion.

Also, it's relatively important to understand that MAGAs always whatabout with black people when possible. It's part of their public displays of racism. When you do that, you're aligning yourself -- intentionally or not -- with that mentality. You could have made the same point without bringing up Mike Brown. Or make the point generally before mentioning him, so as to cast his case as a mere illustration as opposed to being the main point.

3. In general, I think most of the complaining about "intolerance" and "groupthink" on this board simply reflects our collective expectation that people express themselves clearly. A lot of lawyers here, and lawyers tend to frown instinctively on "right for bad reasons" because "right" often collapses to those bad reasons at later stages of litigation. Apart from that, it's always better to be clear in your positions, and don't muddle them. If you have to think for a couple of minutes to gather and organize your thoughts before posting, I would suggest it. I usually spend as much time laying out the organization of a post in my head as I do typing it. I recognize that I'm a bit of an outlier in this respect, as I've been writing argumentative prose for my job for a quarter century and I'm also very good at it (judging by awards and recognition). So the distribution of time between those tasks might be non-standard. I still think it couldn't hurt to at least take a small cue from it.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
There's nothing "fake" about those convictions. They are as real as Donny's spray tan. And there is literally nothing you can do about it.

So, once again: You voted for a convicted felon.

Your "law and order" guy is guilty of 34 felonies. He is a felon now and will be a felon for the rest of his life.
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When he says "fake" or "sham," what he means is he doesn't want to have to think about them.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
There's nothing "fake" about those convictions. They are as real as Donny's spray tan. And there is literally nothing you can do about it.

So, once again: You voted for a convicted felon.

Your "law and order" guy is guilty of 34 felonies. He is a felon now and will be a felon for the rest of his life.
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How many by Letitia James the corrupt attorney from NY? Shes facing her own legal troubles now! Your convictions are only one sided. Always defending the corrupt bureaucratic status quo. Brainwashed beyond belief!
 
Ramrouser said:
No problem with her family receiving that settlement. A Capitol police officer shot her (unarmed) at point blank range. As a comparison, Minneapolis paid the George Floyd family 27 million.
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You really see those as equal?

Was she held down and suffocated?

Plus, she was in the act of committing a crime. I thought you wanted all criminals removed and sent to Venezuela. Why are you being soft here? Since she's dead shouldn't her mother have to serve the time for her?
 
Silence Dogood said:
How many by Letitia James the corrupt attorney from NY? Shes facing her own legal troubles now! Your convictions are only one sided. Always defending the corrupt bureaucratic status quo. Brainwashed beyond belief!
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Why are you defending a convicted felon who lost in 2020 and unsuccessfully tried to overturn the election? Losers gonna lose!
 
ZZLPHeels said:
Why are you defending a convicted felon who lost in 2020 and unsuccessfully tried to overturn the election? Losers gonna lose!
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You'd have more credibility if you're TDS wasn't a mental disorder! Always one sided. Keep defending everything wrong with this country!
 
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