DOGE Catch-All | DOGE ledger “riddled with errors”

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superrific said:
Correct. I do not think it is being overused when applied to what is happening.

I think those debates about historical fascism are silly. Nothing is ever perfectly alike. The main differentiator these days is the ability to flood the zone like never before. If zone flooding had been possible in the 1930s and 1940s, I imagine there might have been more of it. I mean, they did flood the zone to some degree, but obviously the ability was limited.

If we want to say that Musk and Hitler aren't doing exactly the same thing, well of course. Neither were Stalin and Mao. That Musk and his people use "imperial CEO" instead of "Fuhrer" doesn't really make that much difference.
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I tend to agree with you, but I think reasonable people will disagree about it.
 
nycfan said:
Please don’t use this site to hope for assassination if anyone. We don’t want to be a platform for murderous and suicidal ideation.
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WTF? Hoping for Luigi is not ideation.

But anyway, exactly how far does this policy go? Is it a problem to note that authoritarianism is almost always defeated with some level of violence? TIs it wrong to note how Mussolini ended? It is a fact that the Iraqis killed not just Saddam but his sons. The Bolsheviks and the Jacobins killed the whole royal family. Is it wrong to point that out?
 
superrific said:
WTF? Hoping for Luigi is not ideation.

But anyway, exactly how far does this policy go? Is it a problem to note that authoritarianism is almost always defeated with some level of violence? TIs it wrong to note how Mussolini ended? It is a fact that the Iraqis killed not just Saddam but his sons. The Bolsheviks and the Jacobins killed the whole royal family. Is it wrong to point that out?
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It isn’t acceptable to use the platform to openly hope that an assassin kills someone. Or did you mean a different Luigi?
 
nycfan said:
It isn’t acceptable to use the platform to openly hope that an assassin kills someone. Or did you mean a different Luigi?
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Really? How far are you going to take this? Can I hope that Putin has an untimely demise? Is it OK to root for KJU to have a heart attack?

Whether or not someone assassinates Elon is completely beyond my control. I'm not even advocating it.

Reality check: law exists to make violence unnecessary and punishable. People who try to put themselves above the law and operate with impunity are themselves responsible for whatever harm comes their way. They will have defeated the thing that protects them. Heck, in many countries, that coup attempt would have been addressed with summary execution.
 
superrific said:
Really? How far are you going to take this? Can I hope that Putin has an untimely demise? Is it OK to root for KJU to have a heart attack?

Whether or not someone assassinates Elon is completely beyond my control. I'm not even advocating it.

Reality check: law exists to make violence unnecessary and punishable. People who try to put themselves above the law and operate with impunity are themselves responsible for whatever harm comes their way. They will have defeated the thing that protects them. Heck, in many countries, that coup attempt would have been addressed with summary execution.
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The back and forth is set forth below. When you say you are "hoping for Luigi" how are you not advocating something like Luigi did, which was murder a guy in cold blood? Or were you thinking about Super Mario Bros.?

You then go on to argue above that "People who try to put themselves above the law and operate with impunity are themselves responsible for whatever harm comes their way" which indicates that you in fact meant you hope for a similar attack on Musk. I'm not stretching anything you said and politely requesting avoiding the step from discussing the ways in which putting oneself above the law can lead to a violent response to the one where you "hope" or otherwise encourage an assassination.

--- prior back and forth below ---

RaiGuy said:
My hope is that he and trump will have a fall out sooner than later and he will be one of the first to leave (like the last term when trump's inner circle was dropping like flies).
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YOUR RESPONSE: I'm hoping for Luigi.
 
nycfan said:
The back and forth is set forth below. When you say you are "hoping for Luigi" how are you not advocating something like Luigi did, which was murder a guy in cold blood? Or were you thinking about Super Mario Bros.?

You then go on to argue above that "People who try to put themselves above the law and operate with impunity are themselves responsible for whatever harm comes their way" which indicates that you in fact meant you hope for a similar attack on Musk. I'm not stretching anything you said and politely requesting avoiding the step from discussing the ways in which putting oneself above the law can lead to a violent response to the one where you "hope" or otherwise encourage an assassination.

--- prior back and forth below ---


YOUR RESPONSE: I'm hoping for Luigi.
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Hoping is not advocating. I am hoping someone kills Elon Musk. Just like I hope that someone kills Putin.

Your position is really strange given that our country was born from violence. Our constitution was borne from rebellions and riots. Throughout all of human history, the riot, the popular uprising -- those have been the main forms of resistance against oppression. That's just a fact.

Gil Scott Heron once talked about his realization that Nat Turner was one of the good guys. Is that also verboten? I mean, have you listened to any of his poems? There's a LOT of violence in there, and a lot of ideation to boot. He's considered a major voice of twentieth century social protest and political art.

NWA talked about smoking pork. I guess we can't talk about NWA either, then.

You are trying to draw a line that does not exist, that does not make sense, and is historically blind. I am almost always good natured toward moderator requests, but I'm not going to kow-tow to this administration. Fascists want you to say things like you did. I won't partake.
 
Imagine if Thomas "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" Jefferson posted here. nycfan would short-circuit.
 
Healing said:
Now you’re just antagonizing.
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Honestly think it might be a little more than that based on his posts from the last couple of months. Things appear to be spiraling. If someone said this stuff on 4chan about Biden or Harris or Trump, I'm guessing the secret service would be visiting.
 
Healing said:
Now you’re just antagonizing.
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How am I wrong? It' s not just Jefferson. "Ideating homicide" by nycfan's definition is an integral part of our intellectual tradition and heritage. It is almost impossible to talk about political theory without confronting the subject. What about Malcolm X? Eugene Debs?

One of the most important influences on the Founding Fathers was John Locke. Locke's philosophy is steeped in a tradition of discussing violence. Locke's philosophy, after all, was a direct response to Thomas, "life is short, brutish and nasty" Hobbes. And Locke's solution, and the solution of the Framers, and the solution of the county through its entire history, has been the rule of law. The possibility of the rule of law is the answer to Hobbes.

To say that eliminating the rule of law risks taking us back to Hobbes cannot possibly be a bad thing to say. And since the oligarchs seem to think they are all-powerful and cannot be stopped as they eviscerate the rule of law, then what else am I supposed to hope? Musk is a uniquely dangerous person. He will cause lots of deaths if unchecked. He will kill a lot of people.

More importantly, ELON MUSK is out there calling for homicide. He is actively ideating homicide. If he were to die, many lives will be saved.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
Honestly think it might be a little more than that based on his posts from the last couple of months. Things appear to be spiraling. If someone said this stuff on 4chan about Biden or Harris or Trump, I'm guessing the secret service would be visiting.
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There is nothing at all illegal about saying "I hope for Luigi." That is protected expression and you're an idiot who knows nothing about the law.

I mean, half the country was ***openly celebrating*** Luigi, even though he had no actual justification for what he did.
 
RaiGuy said:
My hope is that he and trump will have a fall out sooner than later and he will be one of the first to leave (like the last term when trump's inner circle was dropping like flies).
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Whether or not Trump and Musk have a falling apart and Musk leaves; or, Trump and/or Musk die, are incapacitated, or voluntarily leave the public arena, the Heritage Foundation shock troops will still implement Project 2025.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
Honestly think it might be a little more than that based on his posts from the last couple of months. Things appear to be spiraling. If someone said this stuff on 4chan about Biden or Harris or Trump, I'm guessing the secret service would be visiting.
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Your read and response on near everything is through the lens of gaining attention for yourself and antagonizing, so you can imply my sentiment towards your disingenuousness, irrespective of whether we agree or disagree on any respective topic. That is, fuck you for leveraging my post to take a potshot, Good German.
 
Healing said:
Your read and response on near everything is through the lens of gaining attention for yourself and antagonizing, so you can imply my sentiment towards your disingenuousness, irrespective of whether we agree or disagree on any respective topic. That is, fuck you for leveraging my post to take a potshot, Good German.
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Well I don't feel that way. I'm just concerned for him. I hope I'm wrong and if I'm not wrong, I hope he gets the help he needs.

And more than anything, I hope him wishing that someone is killed doesn't lead to him making it happen. I know that's almost certainly hysterical, but I'm sure that wishing and hoping led to making for every assassin.
 
superrific said:
WTF? Hoping for Luigi is not ideation.

But anyway, exactly how far does this policy go? Is it a problem to note that authoritarianism is almost always defeated with some level of violence? TIs it wrong to note how Mussolini ended? It is a fact that the Iraqis killed not just Saddam but his sons. The Bolsheviks and the Jacobins killed the whole royal family. Is it wrong to point that out?
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How about you start a new thread to argue this rather than derail this one.
 
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