DOGE Catch-All | DOGE ledger “riddled with errors”

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Enigma94 said:
Can you point out on this website where they post the evidence that $4.7 trillion is being hidden by the government? Or where they post the evidence that 10 million dead people are getting social security? Thanks in advance.
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First, did you read the website and see the savings section? Be honest
 
Silence Dogood said:
First, did you read the website and see the savings section? Be honest
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Yes and it shows $55 billion in savings. No way to tell if that's actual waste/fraud or if they are just cancelling things they don't like. Regardless $55 billion is about .7% of the overall budget, so suffice to say we aren't getting to a balanced budget this way. Also, any savings like this will be obliterated by the Trump tax cut plan. So now that I answered your question, please point me to the evidence of the fraud they claim. Thanks.
 
Silence Dogood said:

x.com

x.com x.com

They have a website, check it out. Its transparent.
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First of all, that’s not a website for Doge. It’s a link to follow Doge on X.

But let’s roll with it.

So, perusing the Website, here is a post from Musk discussing all the Social Security recipients who are dead. Then he provides as proof an Excel document with random numbers attached, posting about death fields being set to false, with no explanation of what he’s actually talking about.

Does this seem transparent to you?



IMG_2637.jpeg
 
Enigma94 said:
Yes and it shows $55 billion in savings. No way to tell if that's actual waste/fraud or if they are just cancelling things they don't like. Regardless $55 billion is about .7% of the overall budget, so suffice to say we aren't getting to a balanced budget this way. Also, any savings like this will be obliterated by the Trump tax cut plan. So now that I answered your question, please point me to the evidence of the fraud they claim. Thanks.
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Wait, your mad DOGE is just getting started and 55 billion isn't enough for you to think why something wasn't done sooner? Do you hear yourself? Tax cuts don't just increase the deficit. Why are you brainwashed that big govt is our savior? Tax cuts promote economic growth.
So far there isn't any concrete evidence. You're playing gotcha games knowing full well its hard to prove that. Even if they did you would still say they lied about the proof. Why isnt anyone inside the govt providing any rebuttal evidence? Again its weird you love defending the status quo and broken systems.
 
Silence Dogood said:
Wait, so your initial reaction isn't to due diligence and be upset that your govt is hiding $4.7T? But rather be upset that the new administration is lowering taxes? You can't be this obtuse! You'll claim that DOGE has no proof, but will go down your own rabbit hole with no proof that DOGE is making this up.
And secondly, they dont need $4.7T to justify lowering taxes. Why do you worship the govt so much you can't see that they're robbing you??
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It is literally impossible for the government to hide $4.7T. Where are they going to hide it? Some massive mattress underneath Mar-A-Lago?

If the 4.7T was invested in physical assets, we'd know about it. Even if they weren't disclosing it in public records, that would be like thousands of commercial buildings. New York is not actually full of empty skyscrapers with mysterious ownership and maintenance. There are no secret manufacturing plants.

If the $4.7T was hidden in financial assets, what financial assets? If it's in dollars, it would be stored in treasury debt, and people would notice something like a missing $4.7T. There's just nothing you can buy with $4.7T that isn't going to be noticed by the whole world. It is straight up impossible.

Now, maybe Elon's plan is to have the government secretly buy a lot of crypto to enrich himself. That would be the only way asset-hiding could ever be done. But of course, you can't buy $4.7T of crypto. Maybe $4.7B.
 
Silence Dogood said:
Wait, your mad DOGE is just getting started and 55 billion isn't enough for you to think why something wasn't done sooner? Do you hear yourself? Tax cuts don't just increase the deficit. Why are you brainwashed that big govt is our savior? Tax cuts promote economic growth.
So far there isn't any concrete evidence. You're playing gotcha games knowing full well its hard to prove that. Even if they did you would still say they lied about the proof. Why isnt anyone inside the govt providing any rebuttal evidence? Again its weird you love defending the status quo and broken systems.
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The status quo says everybody does better under the Dems and only the rich benefit under the Republicans. It's been that way for 75 years and you still don't get it. There's no reason to take your opinion seriously when you don't understand that basic principle of modern politics in America. The only thing Republicans have done for everybody is to increase the national debt. Most of that has been incurred under them.
 
Silence Dogood said:
Wait, your mad DOGE is just getting started and 55 billion isn't enough for you to think why something wasn't done sooner? Do you hear yourself? Tax cuts don't just increase the deficit. Why are you brainwashed that big govt is our savior? Tax cuts promote economic growth.
So far there isn't any concrete evidence. You're playing gotcha games knowing full well its hard to prove that. Even if they did you would still say they lied about the proof. Why isnt anyone inside the govt providing any rebuttal evidence? Again its weird you love defending the status quo and broken systems.
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Son, I used to teach corporate finance. Ain't nobody brainwashing me. I'm friends with economists. I co-published with one of them. We generate the knowledge; we're not brainwashed by it. Quit with the "I'm smarter than everyone" act. The source of your beliefs is your *lack* of knowledge. It wasn't that long ago when people could say things like, "I don't know how that works, I'll leave it for the eggheads." Literally terms like egghead were coined to refer to smart people who knew stuff but couldn't work with their hands. But now, that attitude has transformed into "eggheads are all stupid. I know it all despite my lack of formal education, experience and reading"
 
Silence Dogood said:
Wait, your mad DOGE is just getting started and 55 billion isn't enough for you to think why something wasn't done sooner? Do you hear yourself? Tax cuts don't just increase the deficit. Why are you brainwashed that big govt is our savior? Tax cuts promote economic growth.
So far there isn't any concrete evidence. You're playing gotcha games knowing full well its hard to prove that. Even if they did you would still say they lied about the proof. Why isnt anyone inside the govt providing any rebuttal evidence? Again its weird you love defending the status quo and broken systems.
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I'm not mad, you are the one sounding unhinged. All I'm asking for is evidence of what they are saying is true. Why is that so unfair in your opinion? I'm all for cutting waste and fraud in government, I just can't tell if the $55 billion listed is actual waste/fraud or something they simply don't like. Let's say it is waste and should be gotten rid of, why is it unfair to point out that it won't even put a small dent in the deficit and the promised tax cuts will make those savings look like a rounding error? Are you for fixing the deficit or not?

I don't see it as gotcha that I'm requiring evidence that 10 million dead people are getting social security or $4.7 trillion is being hidden by the government. Those are explosive allegations that need proof. Are you for transparency or not?
 
superrific said:
It is literally impossible for the government to hide $4.7T. Where are they going to hide it? Some massive mattress underneath Mar-A-Lago?

If the 4.7T was invested in physical assets, we'd know about it. Even if they weren't disclosing it in public records, that would be like thousands of commercial buildings. New York is not actually full of empty skyscrapers with mysterious ownership and maintenance. There are no secret manufacturing plants.

If the $4.7T was hidden in financial assets, what financial assets? If it's in dollars, it would be stored in treasury debt, and people would notice something like a missing $4.7T. There's just nothing you can buy with $4.7T that isn't going to be noticed by the whole world. It is straight up impossible.

Now, maybe Elon's plan is to have the government secretly buy a lot of crypto to enrich himself. That would be the only way asset-hiding could ever be done. But of course, you can't buy $4.7T of crypto. Maybe $4.7B.
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It was various payments that totaled up to $4.7T
 
Here's the heading from the DOGE website about the $55B.

is a combination of fraud detection/deletion, contract/lease cancellations, contract/lease renegotiations, asset sales, grant cancellations, workforce reductions, programmatic changes, and regulatory savings.

That's not $55B in "savings." That's a choice not to provide services that people want. It's not the same thing.

Notice the term asset sales. This should be a huge red flag. The reason Argentina fucked itself in the 90s (after recovering from fucking themselves in the 50s and 70s) was that they started selling off public assets and calling them "savings" or "revenue." Well, guess what. Eventually they ran out of assets to sell, found themselves in a massive budget hole, and were paying to lease the stuff they had sold.

If they are selling assets and canceling leases, it's almost certainly a pyramid scheme. That's not "savings." That's just unloading assets owned by the United States at firesale prices to rich people -- otherwise known as looting. I thought MAGA really, really hated black people looting.
 
Silence Dogood said:
It was various payments that totaled up to $4.7T
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1. Payments are not assets
2. You still can't hide $4.7T of payments.
3. What actually happened is that a certain database flag wasn't set in line item expenditures. Probably, that database flag was empty because it wasn't being used. I've seen many databases with obsolete columns. Heck, I've programmed them. See, when you design a database, you really need to figure out your data structures before hand. Adding columns to extant tables is really inefficient. Deleting columns is even more so. In every corporate database I've ever seen -- and I worked with SAP and Bristol-Myers-Squibb -- there were unused columns to store certain types of flags. It turned out the flags weren't needed.

That's what Musk doesn't understand because he isn't a data guy and he's relying on teenagers. Databases are ALWAYS full of information that isn't structured the exact way you want. Indeed, it's literally the first thing any database programmer has to do on a new project: learn the data tables and what information is important and what isn't (and why). Musk doesn't know that. I guarantee you that the databases at Tesla are full of data entries that lack values in database columns. Hell, depending on the implementation, merely filling the column with information wastes hard drive storage. So what Musk is going is the literal opposite of efficiency.

Again, if you don't know how any of this works, why are you forming strong opinions about it?
 
I'm not saying I support all of the methods used by Elon/DOGE, but does anyone really believe that there is no fraud and/or no waste in the Federal Government? We're talking about an entity that essentially has no true budget constraints and, presumably, little inherent desire to streamline, save money, etc.
 
ZenMode said:
I'm not saying I support all of the methods used by Elon/DOGE, but does anyone really believe that there is no fraud and/or no waste in the Federal Government? We're talking about an entity that essentially has no true budget constraints and, presumably, little inherent desire to streamline, save money, etc.
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In the non-DOD federal government? There's essentially no fraud, and little waste. The agencies that spend money absolutely do have budget constraints, and they are often constraining. I can testify to that with personal experience. What people like you just don't understand is that streamlining, in the first instance, *consumes* money. And the agencies rarely have money to spare for that sort of thing. The next thing is that *streamlining* doesn't solve any problems, because most of this isn't "waste." It's public services.

Now, in the world of federal contracting, I don't know but I'd imagine there is quite a bit of fraud and waste. That, of course, is not what DOGE is looking at. They can't. It's not something you can find in a payment system. In defense contracting, there absolutely is tons of waste but they ain't gonna be looking at that, for reasons that surely you can understand.
 
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