DOGE Catch-All

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ZenMode said:
Because he put time and money into decreasing headcount and improving efficiency to save money.
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He did not. He gave the appearance of improving efficiency. In reality, DOGE saved less than $1B even before this bill, once you take into a account that they've had to hire back many of the laid off.

So DOGE caused tremendous chaos in the government, shut down many essential or near-essential public programs, laid off a lot of people and caused even more a lot of anxiety -- and the total savings amount to .003% of the national debt. What a business genius!
 
ZenMode said:
Because he put time and money into decreasing headcount and improving efficiency to save money and apparently took that job seriously.

Even if he knew is could happen, it's a different situation when it actually does happen.
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so equal parts clueless and gullible.
 
superrific said:
He did not. He gave the appearance of improving efficiency. In reality, DOGE saved less than $1B even before this bill, once you take into a account that they've had to hire back many of the laid off.

So DOGE caused tremendous chaos in the government, shut down many essential or near-essential public programs, laid off a lot of people and caused even more a lot of anxiety -- and the total savings amount to .003% of the national debt. What a business genius!
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This is part of the “cluelessness” I was referring to in my prior post, but not even the main part.
One has to be extremely clueless to not understand that Trump was going to blow up the deficit. Literally every other person in the world who has been paying attention knew this was coming.
 
ChileG said:
This is part of the “cluelessness” I was referring to in my prior post, but not even the main part.
One has to be extremely clueless to not understand that Trump was going to blow up the deficit. Literally every other person in the world who has been paying attention knew this was coming.
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Oh, I thought your "clueless and gullible" comment was about ZenMode believing the Elon Musk "put time and money into decreasing headcount and improving efficiency to save money and apparently took that job seriously."

Anyone with half a brain and no agenda understands taking that job seriously would mean significant study of the federal departments to understand their role, where waste might exist, and consequences of cuts to the mission. Instead, Musk brought in wet-behind-the-ears amateurs and perpetrated careless, untargeted cuts with consequences we have yet to understand. Elon Musk did not "take that job seriously." It was little more than massive troll job that was irresponsible and dangerous. We will be paying for this folly for a long time to come.
 
farce© said:
Oh, I thought your "clueless and gullible" comment was about ZenMode believing the Elon Musk "put time and money into decreasing headcount and improving efficiency to save money and apparently took that job seriously."

Anyone with half a brain and no agenda understands taking that job seriously would mean significant study of the federal departments to understand their role, where waste might exist, and consequences of cuts to the mission. Instead, Musk brought in wet-behind-the-ears amateurs and perpetrated careless, untargeted cuts with consequences we have yet to understand. Elon Musk did not "take that job seriously." It was little more than massive troll job that was irresponsible and dangerous. We will be paying for this folly for a long time to come.
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I agree.
 
superrific said:
He did not. He gave the appearance of improving efficiency. In reality, DOGE saved less than $1B even before this bill, once you take into a account that they've had to hire back many of the laid off.

So DOGE caused tremendous chaos in the government, shut down many essential or near-essential public programs, laid off a lot of people and caused even more a lot of anxiety -- and the total savings amount to .003% of the national debt. What a business genius!
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Don’t give him that credit. His layoffs at the IRS will cost the government far more than any savings on salaries in other departments. FAR MORE. So DOGE was a net negative on the debt.
 
Calheel said:
Don’t give him that credit. His layoffs at the IRS will cost the government far more than any savings on salaries in other departments. FAR MORE. So DOGE was a net negative on the debt.
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Absolutely. I was talking about his claims of direct savings, not the indirect effects but you're exactly right.
 


Imagine that something that didn’t work all that well for a private company that maxed out below 8,000 total employees was a failure at government agencies with tens of thousands of employees (about 3 million federal employees in the aggregate) … who could have known?
 
nycfan said:


Imagine that something that didn’t work all that well for a private company that maxed out below 8,000 total employees was a failure at government agencies with tens of thousands of employees (about 3 million federal employees in the aggregate) … who could have known?
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I know you are asking, “who could have known?” rhetorically, but there were those here who defended this measure breathlessly.
 
Mulberry Heel said:
We as a nation are going to pay a terrible price for the complete stupidity of what we're doing right now. It will take awhile, but if this keeps up then China will replace us as the world's most influential nation, because they're going to step in and step up and start paying for and supporting all of the international and global organizations and projects we're abandoning willy-nilly with no real thought or planning, other than it will piss off liberals. Of course Trump doesn't care as he likely won't live long enough to experience the real effects of what he's doing.
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If the politicians of this country for the last 30 years hadn't just sat back and willingly watched the largest transfer of wealth in human history take place from the US to the world's looter, that being China, China wouldn't have all the money they are using to spread their influence and build a military they will use to fight the US in any potential future conflict.

Since we are now worried about China, with all of their money, using that money to maximize their influence over world affairs while minimizing the United States, then it would seem logical to me that it is past time for the US to take drastic measures if necessary to minimize the wealth China is gaining at the expense of the US. Agree?
 
It should be shocking to realize the level of waste and fraud that goes on within the government of this country, a country 36 trillion in debt, and we have just scratched the surface. I can see why politicians would love the status quo with their access to trillions of dollars every year to line the pockets of friends, family, and themselves.

But something I just can't understand is how those same wasteful, corrupt, and nonchalant politicians can convince people who, along with their children, will be the ones paying the price for all of this corruption to actually fight against its discovery....at their own peril.

So, Elon has moved on. The corrupt politicians have won in that regard, and they will try to convince their supporters that they have won too but the question is, how many people will be gullible or stupid enough to believe them. If history is any indicator, I would predict a lot.
 
PandemicBlue said:
If the politicians of this country for the last 30 years hadn't just sat back and willingly watched the largest transfer of wealth in human history take place from the US to the world's looter, that being China, China wouldn't have all the money they are using to spread their influence and build a military they will use to fight the US in any potential future conflict.

Since we are now worried about China, with all of their money, using that money to maximize their influence over world affairs while minimizing the United States, then it would seem logical to me that it is past time for the US to take drastic measures if necessary to minimize the wealth China is gaining at the expense of the US. Agree?
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lemme see if I’ve got this right:

—The Trump admin has voluntarily ceded America’s soft power influence across the globe.

—As predicted by anyone with a brain, China is stepping into the void and broadening their soft power across the globe.

—Therefore, instead of reversing course and trying to bolster our position as the “leader of the free world”, we must instead impose global tariffs and attempt to punish China for filling the void we created.

Makes sense.
 
PandemicBlue said:
If the politicians of this country for the last 30 years hadn't just sat back and willingly watched the largest transfer of wealth in human history take place from the US to the world's looter, that being China, China wouldn't have all the money they are using to spread their influence and build a military they will use to fight the US in any potential future conflict.

Since we are now worried about China, with all of their money, using that money to maximize their influence over world affairs while minimizing the United States, then it would seem logical to me that it is past time for the US to take drastic measures if necessary to minimize the wealth China is gaining at the expense of the US. Agree?
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Not if doing so would wreck the American economy and severely harm Americans as a result. The "transfer of wealth" you're talking about didn't come about because of the government, it came about because the American people - including very large numbers of MAGAs - buy all kinds of products from China because they're much cheaper than if they had been made in the USA. Conservatives love the idea of corporations being unregulated and able to pursue maximum profits in any way they please, and as it turns out once they discovered that they could move their operations to China (and lots of other places) and increase their profits because foreign workers would work for far less pay than American ones they decided to maximize their profits and move. Most businesses aren't going to return to America because it's far more expensive to build things here, not because of government regulations but because American workers won't work for the extremely low pay that workers in China and other places will. Do you think that MAGAs would work for, say, maybe $2 or $3 an hour (at most, in many places it's much less)?

The bottom line is that for your plan to succeed Americans are going to have to be willing to pay higher prices (and in some cases considerably higher prices) for the products they buy, and study after study has shown that the great majority of Americans - including Trumpers - simply don't care where the products they buy are made as long as they're as cheap as possible.
 
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PandemicBlue said:
If the politicians of this country for the last 30 years hadn't just sat back and willingly watched the largest transfer of wealth in human history take place from the US to the world's looter, that being China, China wouldn't have all the money they are using to spread their influence and build a military they will use to fight the US in any potential future conflict.

Since we are now worried about China, with all of their money, using that money to maximize their influence over world affairs while minimizing the United States, then it would seem logical to me that it is past time for the US to take drastic measures if necessary to minimize the wealth China is gaining at the expense of the US. Agree?
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Drastic measures? Maybe. Dumb measures? No.
 
PandemicBlue said:
It should be shocking to realize the level of waste and fraud that goes on within the government of this country, a country 36 trillion in debt, and we have just scratched the surface. I can see why politicians would love the status quo with their access to trillions of dollars every year to line the pockets of friends, family, and themselves.

But something I just can't understand is how those same wasteful, corrupt, and nonchalant politicians can convince people who, along with their children, will be the ones paying the price for all of this corruption to actually fight against its discovery....at their own peril.

So, Elon has moved on. The corrupt politicians have won in that regard, and they will try to convince their supporters that they have won too but the question is, how many people will be gullible or stupid enough to believe them. If history is any indicator, I would predict a lot.
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Nobody had an issue with it when Clinton did it. Maybe the difference was in their methods. Ever consider that?
 
nycfan said:


Imagine that something that didn’t work all that well for a private company that maxed out below 8,000 total employees was a failure at government agencies with tens of thousands of employees (about 3 million federal employees in the aggregate) … who could have known?
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“……insight into their employees contributions…..”

Most Federal workers are NOT Trump or Elon or Bondi or Hegseth’s “employees.”

They work for the United States of America.
 
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