FAFO

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Ramrouser said:
I have stated repeatedly on this Board that I do NOT favor Trump's general tariff policy and certainly not the "Liberation Day" tariffs. Targeted tariffs are appropriate but I'm not for general, across the board tariffs. If these tariffs remain permanent there is no question they will cause damage to our economy. That doesn't mean I'm going to stomp on my red hat, denounce Trump and suddenly become a progressive because I'm 100% confident that these tariffs will not remain in place.

By "work" what I mean is that it looks like Trump is going to be successful in negotiating marginally better trade deals with most of our allies. This, according to numerous administration officials including Bessent (since you don't believe Trump). Now, it looks like China may have blinked and we'll eventually be able to reach an agreement with them which may mitigate their unfair practices. Neither nation can afford a trade war. If that can be accomplished in the coming months, then Trump's plan "worked." By then we'll likely have the reconciliation bill pass which will bring further certainty to businesses. Trump's plan on tariffs wouldn't have been my plan and we'll have to see if there is a net gain, on balance, for the economy after the dust settles.

I also don't believe in the fantasy that any tariff policy will convert the US to a manufacturing economy like we had in the '60s and early '70s. Textile factories are not going to return to the Carolinas. I do think Trump's plan may "work" to encourage more high end manufacturing in the country. Bessent indicates that we've already secured 8T+/- in foreign investment guarantees from foreign nations fearful of our tariff policies.

In short, I don't favor tariffs but I'm trusting the process. I realize most here don't
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China blinked???

Ha Ha Smile GIF by The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon
 
Calheel said:
Oh they will crash and burn soon enough. But by then he will have already pocketed billions. That is better than he would have done just investing daddy’s money.
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yeah, I don't disagree with you, cal.

And even if I did, it's Friday - my half day where I'm off at 1130 - and I'm 3 whiskey's in sitting outside on a hammock. Discussions that require actual brain power aren't happening right now. 😂
 
Ramrouser said:
I admit the tariff issue is messy and causing a bit of chaos, BUT the process is starting to work. China has hinted its willingness to negotiate, and thus, the markets are surging today. The GOLDEN AGE is beginning!
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Nice how you undersale his faults while oversaling the accomplishments. You planning on running for office?

The tariffs have caused a lot of issues. Economist that agree with using tariffs are on record saying he is doing it wrong. Many of the issues will not be fixed by negotiating with China.
TangledUpInBlue06 said:
Can you paint a picture of what the Golden Age will look like so we know whether or not it has arrived?

Will household income go up and if so by how much? Will retail prices come down and if so by how much? Will GDP grow and if so by how much? Will unemployment drop and if so by how much?

Just trying to put down some objective markers so you can throw it in all of our faces when we hit them.
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Just imagine the 50s when women and non whites knew their place.

When white men ruled. The woman was expected to have dinner one the table, take care of the family and clean the house and be cleaned up and ready for sex if the husband wants it.
 
Ramrouser said:
Bit of an overstatement don't you think CatTech? Trump could have just lived off his inheritance as a trust fund baby.
Instead, he did build numerous businesses on his own and managed to get elected President of the United States on, at least, two occasions.
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Well he did win the vote in one of those. The other a broken system elected someone who had less votes.

But hay, if 1.5% is a mandate to some, then I'm sure actually losing the popular vote doesn't matter.

From what I've read he wasn’t doing that well financially, until his reality TV show.

He bankrupted a Cassino even with daddy helping by injecting funds into it.

He got lucky buying some depressed property with daddy's money that did well. Still doesn't justify the label good business man.

His ghost writer for his book stated that he regretted the hyperbole in the book that made Trump look much better than he actually is. The art of being born rich and managing to not completely fuck it up, would have been a better title.
 
Icky Mettle said:
I’m not aiming this at Ramrouser, but as a lawyer who practices in NC, I know a lot of UNC grads with law degrees, and while most are quite smart, there are also some who are absolute morons. I wouldn’t let them represent me pro bono on a seatbelt violation ticket.
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Someone always graduates last in there class. :cool:

I probably shouldn't joke about that, I'm sure I wasn't in the top 20% of my class.
 
superrific said:
All of his businesses failed. If Trump had just lived off his inheritance, he'd be significantly richer.
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From what I've read of the money recieved from daddy, he would be much richer buying index funds.

Plus those tax returns and all the losses. Hell he should love the government.
 
Ramrouser said:
I have stated repeatedly on this Board that I do NOT favor Trump's general tariff policy and certainly not the "Liberation Day" tariffs. Targeted tariffs are appropriate but I'm not for general, across the board tariffs. If these tariffs remain permanent there is no question they will cause damage to our economy. That doesn't mean I'm going to stomp on my red hat, denounce Trump and suddenly become a progressive because I'm 100% confident that these tariffs will not remain in place.

By "work" what I mean is that it looks like Trump is going to be successful in negotiating marginally better trade deals with most of our allies. This, according to numerous administration officials including Bessent (since you don't believe Trump). Now, it looks like China may have blinked and we'll eventually be able to reach an agreement with them which may mitigate their unfair practices. Neither nation can afford a trade war. If that can be accomplished in the coming months, then Trump's plan "worked." By then we'll likely have the reconciliation bill pass which will bring further certainty to businesses. Trump's plan on tariffs wouldn't have been my plan and we'll have to see if there is a net gain, on balance, for the economy after the dust settles.

I also don't believe in the fantasy that any tariff policy will convert the US to a manufacturing economy like we had in the '60s and early '70s. Textile factories are not going to return to the Carolinas. I do think Trump's plan may "work" to encourage more high end manufacturing in the country. Bessent indicates that we've already secured 8T+/- in foreign investment guarantees from foreign nations fearful of our tariff policies.

In short, I don't favor tariffs but I'm trusting the process. I realize most here don't
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How does this address the issues with travel and small businesses going under? There are so many better ways to have enhanced manufacturing, negotiated trade, etc.

The problem is those didn't stroke the narcissist fat fucking ego. No he just wanted to say people were kissing his ass, like a good leader.... 🤮 :sick:

I'd like to see information on these foreign investments from a creditable source. No one in this administration is creditable.
 
Ramrouser said:
I have stated repeatedly on this Board that I do NOT favor Trump's general tariff policy and certainly not the "Liberation Day" tariffs. Targeted tariffs are appropriate but I'm not for general, across the board tariffs. If these tariffs remain permanent there is no question they will cause damage to our economy. That doesn't mean I'm going to stomp on my red hat, denounce Trump and suddenly become a progressive because I'm 100% confident that these tariffs will not remain in place.

By "work" what I mean is that it looks like Trump is going to be successful in negotiating marginally better trade deals with most of our allies. This, according to numerous administration officials including Bessent (since you don't believe Trump). Now, it looks like China may have blinked and we'll eventually be able to reach an agreement with them which may mitigate their unfair practices. Neither nation can afford a trade war. If that can be accomplished in the coming months, then Trump's plan "worked." By then we'll likely have the reconciliation bill pass which will bring further certainty to businesses. Trump's plan on tariffs wouldn't have been my plan and we'll have to see if there is a net gain, on balance, for the economy after the dust settles.

I also don't believe in the fantasy that any tariff policy will convert the US to a manufacturing economy like we had in the '60s and early '70s. Textile factories are not going to return to the Carolinas. I do think Trump's plan may "work" to encourage more high end manufacturing in the country. Bessent indicates that we've already secured 8T+/- in foreign investment guarantees from foreign nations fearful of our tariff policies.

In short, I don't favor tariffs but I'm trusting the process. I realize most here don't
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1. We have not received any foreign investment guarantees. Some companies have announced plans to expand. Whether they do or not remains an open question. Remember FoxConn?

2. It is impossible for Trump to negotiate better trade deals. What does a better trade deal look like? Under NAFTA, there were no tariffs in any direction. The tariffs Europe imposes are tiny and approximately equivalent to the US's tariffs.

I happen to know a fair amount about international trade and trade law. I can tell you know nothing about either topic, based on what you've written here.

3. The reason that the US imports more from China than it imports has nothing to do with China's tariffs. It's US fiscal policy that is at fault. Specifically, the deficits.

Obviously the GOP doesn't understand this at all, because it looks set to blow the biggest hole in the peacetime public finances of the United States than we've seen in a very long time. And deficits require financing. And external financing requires a trade imbalance, because external financing is a capital imbalance.

4. What makes you think China has blinked? China will crush the US in a trade war. This is the best thing that has happened to China in a while. When the dust scatters, China will be the world's leading superpower unless Trump reverses course very quickly.
 
superrific said:
1. We have not received any foreign investment guarantees. Some companies have announced plans to expand. Whether they do or not remains an open question. Remember FoxConn?

2. It is impossible for Trump to negotiate better trade deals. What does a better trade deal look like? Under NAFTA, there were no tariffs in any direction. The tariffs Europe imposes are tiny and approximately equivalent to the US's tariffs.

I happen to know a fair amount about international trade and trade law. I can tell you know nothing about either topic, based on what you've written here.

3. The reason that the US imports more from China than it imports has nothing to do with China's tariffs. It's US fiscal policy that is at fault. Specifically, the deficits.

Obviously the GOP doesn't understand this at all, because it looks set to blow the biggest hole in the peacetime public finances of the United States than we've seen in a very long time. And deficits require financing. And external financing requires a trade imbalance, because external financing is a capital imbalance.

4. What makes you think China has blinked? China will crush the US in a trade war. This is the best thing that has happened to China in a while. When the dust scatters, China will be the world's leading superpower unless Trump reverses course very quickly.
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And even if we allow that Trump may get “marginally better” trades deals (he won’t but stay with me), there is no way that would be worth all the damage already done.
 
ChileG said:
And even if we allow that Trump may get “marginally better” trades deals (he won’t but stay with me), there is no way that would be worth all the damage already done.
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Based upon what the Administration (not Trump himself) is saying I think we may do better with India and perhaps China with the rest being a relative wash but I take your point about whether it's worth it.
 
Lando said:
It would involve being conservative in the first place. Trump is who he wants to be as a husband, father, and Christian. He won’t denounce him.
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Why would I denounce Trump - I like (for the most part) his policies. Most policies align with my conservative beliefs.

My support for him has nothing to do whether I think he’s a good husband, father or Christian. Irrelevant.
 
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