FAFO

[BlueSteel]

You alter your arguments like you alter Trump's credentials.

Otoh, since I worship at the altar of truth, can you explain why he had his lawyers threaten to sue any school or testing agency that revealed any of his grades or scores? That doesn't seem like the typical self aggrandizing behavior of a raving egomaniac like Trump unless they were so pitiful not even he could pretend about them.

Clearly it's because Donald Trump is all about humility. Probably just doesn't want his straight As to intimidate others.

 

[BlueSteel]

I admit the tariff issue is messy and causing a bit of chaos, BUT the process is starting to work. China has hinted its willingness to negotiate, and thus, the markets are surging today. The GOLDEN AGE is beginning!

You poor, misguided soul. You really do believe that don't you. I'll pray for you.

 

[superrific]

Bit of an overstatement don't you think CatTech? Trump could have just lived off his inheritance as a trust fund baby.
Instead, he did build numerous businesses on his own and managed to get elected President of the United States on, at least, two occasions.

All of his businesses failed. If Trump had just lived off his inheritance, he'd be significantly richer.

 

[superrific]

I admit the tariff issue is messy and causing a bit of chaos, BUT the process is starting to work.

Define work. Because the first problem with Trump's tariff bullshit is that it has no coherent goal. If the goal is to cause industry to come back to the US, he's done it completely wrong. The problem isn't trade deals; it's American industrial policy.

You tell me how it helps American manufacturing for Trump to be cancelling renewable energy credits, solar power research. Trump hates wind for such irrational reasons. Those are important manufacturing industries, and Trump is destroying them, not building them. Because he wants coal instead. Building a bridge to the 19th century. Coal, by the way, is such a harmful fuel that mining and burning it for electricity makes us poorer when you factor in the health impact.

If you want to bring manufacturing to the US, the way to do it is the CHIPS Act and the Build Back Better program (I guess the achievement there was the IRA). Trump doesn't understand that industry can't relocate here because it can't function here, because the infrastructure doesn't exist. And the reason it doesn't exist is that we've relied so heavily on the private sector to build out everything. Well, guess what? Individual companies working on their own generally cannot build an industrial system. That's been shown throughout history.

So what do you mean by tariffs "working"? It's not going to be bringing manufacturing back to the US. Will they raise revenue? No, not as currently constructed. Indeed, the tariffs have probably cost the US hundreds of billions of dollars -- tens at least -- because they have reduced Americans' incomes and thus the taxes they will owe, while generating no revenue because you can't tariff products that never arrive.

Any other thoughts on what it might mean for the tariffs to work?

Also, tariffs have never worked as an economic policy. Argentina tried it. It was literally the downfall of their economy. Actually, all through South America countries decided to go it alone, trying to make everything themselves instead of importing. That's why they basically all went bankrupt in the 1980s, and they very nearly took out some big US banks.

 

[Ramrouser]

I have stated repeatedly on this Board that I do NOT favor Trump's general tariff policy and certainly not the "Liberation Day" tariffs. Targeted tariffs are appropriate but I'm not for general, across the board tariffs. If these tariffs remain permanent there is no question they will cause damage to our economy. That doesn't mean I'm going to stomp on my red hat, denounce Trump and suddenly become a progressive because I'm 100% confident that these tariffs will not remain in place.

By "work" what I mean is that it looks like Trump is going to be successful in negotiating marginally better trade deals with most of our allies. This, according to numerous administration officials including Bessent (since you don't believe Trump). Now, it looks like China may have blinked and we'll eventually be able to reach an agreement with them which may mitigate their unfair practices. Neither nation can afford a trade war. If that can be accomplished in the coming months, then Trump's plan "worked." By then we'll likely have the reconciliation bill pass which will bring further certainty to businesses. Trump's plan on tariffs wouldn't have been my plan and we'll have to see if there is a net gain, on balance, for the economy after the dust settles.

I also don't believe in the fantasy that any tariff policy will convert the US to a manufacturing economy like we had in the '60s and early '70s. Textile factories are not going to return to the Carolinas. I do think Trump's plan may "work" to encourage more high end manufacturing in the country. Bessent indicates that we've already secured 8T+/- in foreign investment guarantees from foreign nations fearful of our tariff policies.

In short, I don't favor tariffs but I'm trusting the process. I realize most here don't

 

[CFordUNC]

That doesn't mean I'm going to stomp on my red hat, denounce Trump and suddenly become a progressive

Is there a way for you to denounce Trump while remaining conservative?

 

[Calheel]

All of his businesses failed. If Trump had just lived off his inheritance, he'd be significantly richer.

I’d say the crypto and truth businesses turned out to be huge successes for him.

 

[lawtig02]

I have stated repeatedly on this Board that I do NOT favor Trump's general tariff policy and certainly not the "Liberation Day" tariffs. Targeted tariffs are appropriate but I'm not for general, across the board tariffs. If these tariffs remain permanent there is no question they will cause damage to our economy. That doesn't mean I'm going to stomp on my red hat, denounce Trump and suddenly become a progressive because I'm 100% confident that these tariffs will not remain in place.

By "work" what I mean is that it looks like Trump is going to be successful in negotiating marginally better trade deals with most of our allies. This, according to numerous administration officials including Bessent (since you don't believe Trump). Now, it looks like China may have blinked and we'll eventually be able to reach an agreement with them which may mitigate their unfair practices. Neither nation can afford a trade war. If that can be accomplished in the coming months, then Trump's plan "worked." By then we'll likely have the reconciliation bill pass which will bring further certainty to businesses. Trump's plan on tariffs wouldn't have been my plan and we'll have to see if there is a net gain, on balance, for the economy after the dust settles.

I also don't believe in the fantasy that any tariff policy will convert the US to a manufacturing economy like we had in the '60s and early '70s. Textile factories are not going to return to the Carolinas. I do think Trump's plan may "work" to encourage more high end manufacturing in the country. Bessent indicates that we've already secured 8T+/- in foreign investment guarantees from foreign nations fearful of our tariff policies.

In short, I don't favor tariffs but I'm trusting the process. I realize most here don't

China blinked???

 

[NOVAHEEL13]

I’d say the crypto and truth businesses turned out to be huge successes for him.

for now

 

[Ramrouser]

China blinked???

China can say we caved and WIN WIN

 

[Calheel]

for now

Oh they will crash and burn soon enough. But by then he will have already pocketed billions. That is better than he would have done just investing daddy’s money.

 

[Kingpin]

I’d say the crypto and truth businesses turned out to be huge successes for him.

Right. Any wealth he has today is due to grifting as a Con man and, of course, overt illegal conflicts of interest as President

 

[NOVAHEEL13]

Oh they will crash and burn soon enough. But by then he will have already pocketed billions. That is better than he would have done just investing daddy’s money.

yeah, I don't disagree with you, cal.

And even if I did, it's Friday - my half day where I'm off at 1130 - and I'm 3 whiskey's in sitting outside on a hammock. Discussions that require actual brain power aren't happening right now.

 

[UNCatTech]

I admit the tariff issue is messy and causing a bit of chaos, BUT the process is starting to work. China has hinted its willingness to negotiate, and thus, the markets are surging today. The GOLDEN AGE is beginning!

Nice how you undersale his faults while oversaling the accomplishments. You planning on running for office?

The tariffs have caused a lot of issues. Economist that agree with using tariffs are on record saying he is doing it wrong. Many of the issues will not be fixed by negotiating with China.

Can you paint a picture of what the Golden Age will look like so we know whether or not it has arrived?

Will household income go up and if so by how much? Will retail prices come down and if so by how much? Will GDP grow and if so by how much? Will unemployment drop and if so by how much?

Just trying to put down some objective markers so you can throw it in all of our faces when we hit them.

Just imagine the 50s when women and non whites knew their place.

When white men ruled. The woman was expected to have dinner one the table, take care of the family and clean the house and be cleaned up and ready for sex if the husband wants it.

 

[UNCatTech]

Bit of an overstatement don't you think CatTech? Trump could have just lived off his inheritance as a trust fund baby.
Instead, he did build numerous businesses on his own and managed to get elected President of the United States on, at least, two occasions.

Well he did win the vote in one of those. The other a broken system elected someone who had less votes.

But hay, if 1.5% is a mandate to some, then I'm sure actually losing the popular vote doesn't matter.

From what I've read he wasn’t doing that well financially, until his reality TV show.

He bankrupted a Cassino even with daddy helping by injecting funds into it.

He got lucky buying some depressed property with daddy's money that did well. Still doesn't justify the label good business man.

His ghost writer for his book stated that he regretted the hyperbole in the book that made Trump look much better than he actually is. The art of being born rich and managing to not completely fuck it up, would have been a better title.

 

[UNCatTech]

I’m not aiming this at Ramrouser, but as a lawyer who practices in NC, I know a lot of UNC grads with law degrees, and while most are quite smart, there are also some who are absolute morons. I wouldn’t let them represent me pro bono on a seatbelt violation ticket.

Someone always graduates last in there class.

I probably shouldn't joke about that, I'm sure I wasn't in the top 20% of my class.

 

[UNCatTech]

All of his businesses failed. If Trump had just lived off his inheritance, he'd be significantly richer.

From what I've read of the money recieved from daddy, he would be much richer buying index funds.

Plus those tax returns and all the losses. Hell he should love the government.

 

[UNCatTech]

I have stated repeatedly on this Board that I do NOT favor Trump's general tariff policy and certainly not the "Liberation Day" tariffs. Targeted tariffs are appropriate but I'm not for general, across the board tariffs. If these tariffs remain permanent there is no question they will cause damage to our economy. That doesn't mean I'm going to stomp on my red hat, denounce Trump and suddenly become a progressive because I'm 100% confident that these tariffs will not remain in place.

By "work" what I mean is that it looks like Trump is going to be successful in negotiating marginally better trade deals with most of our allies. This, according to numerous administration officials including Bessent (since you don't believe Trump). Now, it looks like China may have blinked and we'll eventually be able to reach an agreement with them which may mitigate their unfair practices. Neither nation can afford a trade war. If that can be accomplished in the coming months, then Trump's plan "worked." By then we'll likely have the reconciliation bill pass which will bring further certainty to businesses. Trump's plan on tariffs wouldn't have been my plan and we'll have to see if there is a net gain, on balance, for the economy after the dust settles.

I also don't believe in the fantasy that any tariff policy will convert the US to a manufacturing economy like we had in the '60s and early '70s. Textile factories are not going to return to the Carolinas. I do think Trump's plan may "work" to encourage more high end manufacturing in the country. Bessent indicates that we've already secured 8T+/- in foreign investment guarantees from foreign nations fearful of our tariff policies.

In short, I don't favor tariffs but I'm trusting the process. I realize most here don't

How does this address the issues with travel and small businesses going under? There are so many better ways to have enhanced manufacturing, negotiated trade, etc.

The problem is those didn't stroke the narcissist fat fucking ego. No he just wanted to say people were kissing his ass, like a good leader....

I'd like to see information on these foreign investments from a creditable source. No one in this administration is creditable.

 

[superrific]

I have stated repeatedly on this Board that I do NOT favor Trump's general tariff policy and certainly not the "Liberation Day" tariffs. Targeted tariffs are appropriate but I'm not for general, across the board tariffs. If these tariffs remain permanent there is no question they will cause damage to our economy. That doesn't mean I'm going to stomp on my red hat, denounce Trump and suddenly become a progressive because I'm 100% confident that these tariffs will not remain in place.

By "work" what I mean is that it looks like Trump is going to be successful in negotiating marginally better trade deals with most of our allies. This, according to numerous administration officials including Bessent (since you don't believe Trump). Now, it looks like China may have blinked and we'll eventually be able to reach an agreement with them which may mitigate their unfair practices. Neither nation can afford a trade war. If that can be accomplished in the coming months, then Trump's plan "worked." By then we'll likely have the reconciliation bill pass which will bring further certainty to businesses. Trump's plan on tariffs wouldn't have been my plan and we'll have to see if there is a net gain, on balance, for the economy after the dust settles.

I also don't believe in the fantasy that any tariff policy will convert the US to a manufacturing economy like we had in the '60s and early '70s. Textile factories are not going to return to the Carolinas. I do think Trump's plan may "work" to encourage more high end manufacturing in the country. Bessent indicates that we've already secured 8T+/- in foreign investment guarantees from foreign nations fearful of our tariff policies.

In short, I don't favor tariffs but I'm trusting the process. I realize most here don't

1. We have not received any foreign investment guarantees. Some companies have announced plans to expand. Whether they do or not remains an open question. Remember FoxConn?

2. It is impossible for Trump to negotiate better trade deals. What does a better trade deal look like? Under NAFTA, there were no tariffs in any direction. The tariffs Europe imposes are tiny and approximately equivalent to the US's tariffs.

I happen to know a fair amount about international trade and trade law. I can tell you know nothing about either topic, based on what you've written here.

3. The reason that the US imports more from China than it imports has nothing to do with China's tariffs. It's US fiscal policy that is at fault. Specifically, the deficits.

Obviously the GOP doesn't understand this at all, because it looks set to blow the biggest hole in the peacetime public finances of the United States than we've seen in a very long time. And deficits require financing. And external financing requires a trade imbalance, because external financing is a capital imbalance.

4. What makes you think China has blinked? China will crush the US in a trade war. This is the best thing that has happened to China in a while. When the dust scatters, China will be the world's leading superpower unless Trump reverses course very quickly.

 

[ChileG]

1. We have not received any foreign investment guarantees. Some companies have announced plans to expand. Whether they do or not remains an open question. Remember FoxConn?

2. It is impossible for Trump to negotiate better trade deals. What does a better trade deal look like? Under NAFTA, there were no tariffs in any direction. The tariffs Europe imposes are tiny and approximately equivalent to the US's tariffs.

I happen to know a fair amount about international trade and trade law. I can tell you know nothing about either topic, based on what you've written here.

3. The reason that the US imports more from China than it imports has nothing to do with China's tariffs. It's US fiscal policy that is at fault. Specifically, the deficits.

Obviously the GOP doesn't understand this at all, because it looks set to blow the biggest hole in the peacetime public finances of the United States than we've seen in a very long time. And deficits require financing. And external financing requires a trade imbalance, because external financing is a capital imbalance.

4. What makes you think China has blinked? China will crush the US in a trade war. This is the best thing that has happened to China in a while. When the dust scatters, China will be the world's leading superpower unless Trump reverses course very quickly.

And even if we allow that Trump may get “marginally better” trades deals (he won’t but stay with me), there is no way that would be worth all the damage already done.