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Why would I denounce Trump - I like (for the most part) his policies. Most policies align with my conservative beliefs.
My support for him has nothing to do whether I think he’s a good husband, father or Christian. Irrelevant.
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FAFO
- Thread starter UNCMSinLS
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My support for him has nothing to do whether I think he’s a good husband, father or Christian. Irrelevant.
ColdBlueSteel
Distinguished Member
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This is true, like it or not
ColdBlueSteel
Distinguished Member
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Just fyi, those last five words are how a lot of people perceive the other party, right or wrong.
What do "conservative" beliefs mean any more?
The pro-Russia stuff would not be a conservative belief historically. Neither would be massive tariffs, bypassing Congress with impoundments and executive orders, pulling funding from research institutions, threatening the fed chair's job, erratic and ever-changing policy announcements, using the office for personal enrichment, lying about election results/fraud, etc.
Could you imagine how Reagan/GWHB would react to any of the above? I'd say very few of Trump's policies align with conservative beliefs -- at least how conservative beliefs have traditionally been defined and understood.
Being an immigration hardliner and cracking down on racial diversity would certainly qualify as traditional conservative beliefs -- as would tax cuts for the rich and reducing government regulation and appointing conservative judges. But those are not "most" of his policies. Most of what he does on a day to day basis has very little to do with conservative values or beliefs
Perhaps but that is not what I was asking. I was asking if you thought Trump’s policies were “conservative”. To me, they are not conservative and I am not sure why you think they are.
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Trump is definitely not a classic conservative. As many has noted, he doesn’t really have an ideology and follows his “gut.” Tariffs are really his only consistent issue. It’s just many of his main issues currently align with conservatives circa 2025. Plus, admittedly conservatives love how he owns the libs. On a few issues (trade and War hawks) he’s clearly moved the party in his direction.
I’m not talking about others. I am talking about you. You wrote: “Most policies align with my conservative beliefs.”
At some point, you need to ask yourself whether tribalism has caused you, Mr. Ramrouser, to change what you believe.
superrific
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The point is that Trump -- and I guess by extension you -- cannot be called conservative in any reasonable meaning of that term.
He is a right-wing radical extremist. His policies are right-wing radicalism. If you agree with them, that makes you a right wing radical, sorry to say. That's just a fact. Now, maybe a right-wing radical is what you want to be. Plenty of people seem to think fondly, even today, of certain left-wing radicals. I don't know, maybe the Cuban health system is just that good. I don't agree, but whether or not you think "Fidel was right," he was a left wing radical and so were his policies. Full stop. Fact.
SmilingJack
Honored Member
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Sounds like Ramlouser wants to start the "I got mine" party to me and anything that is in agreement with his "greed is Good" format give him seconds!
superrific
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Except that deporting without due process is not traditionally conservative. Conservatives have always been stalwart defenders of the right to due process, even if their understanding of due process is needlessly restrictive and credulous. Trump's zero due process is a depature.
A dumb POTUS who thinks he’s brilliant?
Trump IS THE ADMINISTRATION.
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What is due proess for a guy who has a Court order to not deport him? After hearing all the allegations you have placed here
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It’s stunning to me that as a lawyer you would say that.
MendotoManteo
Esteemed Member
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The Kilmar thing aside, I don't understand how the gay barber deportation thing has just been lost to history, apparently. Well, yes, I do, because Democrats suck at messaging.
Whatever the case, the gay barber thing makes the point about Kilmar, whatever he may or may not be, stronger.
The fact that the Trump administration has just abandoned due process.
And there's apparently American citizens involved now too. Small children. But still citizens.
The point, obviously to us who give a damn, is that you can't just deport someone. Even if they're a known "gangbanger" illegal. You have to have due process. Because, otherwise, an asshole can just deport whomever. Including American citizens. Maybe Ramrouser will run afoul in time? And get himself sent to El Salvador? He's banking on that not being the case, and it most likely won't be, but that doesn't matter.
For all I know, Ramrouser may be a gangbanger. He may even be illegally in this country. Do any of us know?
Whatever the case, the gay barber thing makes the point about Kilmar, whatever he may or may not be, stronger.
The fact that the Trump administration has just abandoned due process.
And there's apparently American citizens involved now too. Small children. But still citizens.
The point, obviously to us who give a damn, is that you can't just deport someone. Even if they're a known "gangbanger" illegal. You have to have due process. Because, otherwise, an asshole can just deport whomever. Including American citizens. Maybe Ramrouser will run afoul in time? And get himself sent to El Salvador? He's banking on that not being the case, and it most likely won't be, but that doesn't matter.
For all I know, Ramrouser may be a gangbanger. He may even be illegally in this country. Do any of us know?
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Because I feel that I should investigate and not simply accept things that fit my worldview, I've listened to several interviews with people who fully support using tariffs as a tool and who made a compelling argument for why we should be working on the relationship with China. All of them have been willing to agree that trump is doing it wrong. To different extents they even admitted that he is doing damage that could take decades to fix.
See, I'm not against every position of the republican party, I've actually voted for more pubs than dems in my lifetime. But trump is a buffoon, and he is hurting everyone.
At a minimum, it is not violating an express court order not to do something. It is also not deporting anyone to a foreign jail for an indefinite sentence. If you are going to deport someone, you don't deport him to a jail -- unless the person is subject to an extradition order.
Typically, the due process owed to any immigrant is an appearance in front of an immigration judge (who is an Article II employee, not an Article III employee) with the right of appeal to some type of legally trained panel. That is the process we have followed since 1940.
uncleradar
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I sometimes wonder if people like Ramrouser realize they have become members of a cult.