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Fluoride may be doing more harm than good

gtyellowjacket said:
I've linked them.
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Like I'm going to waste my time reading the stuff you link. I've done it two or three times and the connections have been so tenuous that it just wasn't worth it. The bottom line, anyway, is that if you don't understand your point well enough to summarize, you don't understand your point.
 
finesse said:
Like I'm going to waste my time reading the stuff you link. I've done it two or three times and the connections have been so tenuous that it just wasn't worth it. The bottom line, anyway, is that if you don't understand your point well enough to summarize, you don't understand your point.
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You and I both know that any summary I gave, you would reject. If you want a summary, read the HHS summary that I linked. It literally talks about all but the most recent studies on the issue. It finds that there is some evidence but not conclusive evidence that high fluoride levels lead to lower IQ. The term they used was moderate confidence which is a three on a scale of four with four being the highest confidence.
 
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gtyellowjacket said:
Like most on here, I thought RFK was nuts for his policy to end fluoride treatment in public water supplies. I based this opinion somewhat on assuming that public health officials had done this research but mostly based on the Dr Strangeglove movie.

This columnist and physician felt the same way, but presumably didn't base her opinion on a 60-Year-Old work of fiction. But then she started looking into it and there's a real case to be made to end fluoridation. At this point I'm leaning towards ending it.

Sorry this is behind a pay wall but here are some quotes.

"...studies demonstrating fluoride’s impacts are well-conducted, peer-reviewed and published in prestigious journals such as JAMA. Earlier this year, the National Toxicology Program, which is part of the Department of Health and Human Services, concluded with “moderate confidence” that fluoride in drinking water is linked with lower IQ in kids."

"In any case, the possible increase in dental problems has to be balanced against the possible harm to the developing brain. If given the choice of what is more important to their kids — preventing cavities or saving IQ points — many people would probably choose the latter. Cavities can be treated, but effects on the brain are often irreversible."

".. countries in western Europe, many of which have long decided to stop public water fluoridation"

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From what I’ve read on the subject there is a good case for eliminating fluoride from water. But I also agree that it doesn’t seem to be a huge issue either like other posters have mentioned.

But I can tell everyone that people’s teeth are not bad because of lack of fluoride. People’s teeth are bad because their diets are terrible. It is a fact that tooth decay is caused by consuming processed carbs/sugar. Don’t believe me? Try eliminating those for a month and miraculously you won’t have any (or hardly any) plaque on your teeth. I’ve done that and it really works.

Studies that link tooth decay to poor health are misleading. It’s another “association” not “causation” thing in that if your diet was good almost all your health issues will go away.
 
Delta74 said:
From what I’ve read on the subject there is a good case for eliminating fluoride from water. But I also agree that it doesn’t seem to be a huge issue either like other posters have mentioned.

But I can tell everyone that people’s teeth are not bad because of lack of fluoride. People’s teeth are bad because their diets are terrible. It is a fact that tooth decay is caused by consuming processed carbs/sugar. Don’t believe me? Try eliminating those for a month and miraculously you won’t have any (or hardly any) plaque on your teeth. I’ve done that and it really works.

Studies that link tooth decay to poor health are misleading. It’s another “association” not “causation” thing in that if your diet was good almost all your health issues will go away.
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Truth. Believe it or not, people in the Middle ages had very few cavities. They had other dental problems because the grain that was most of their diet was ground on stones and there was some residual grit that ended up in the flour. Their teeth tended to wear down instead of get holes.

But when cheap refined sugar was introduced to the old world from the new world, cavities became a big problem.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
Truth. Believe it or not, people in the Middle ages had very few cavities. They had other dental problems because the grain that was most of their diet was ground on stones and there was some residual grit that ended up in the flour. Their teeth tended to wear down instead of get holes.

But when cheap refined sugar was introduced to the old world from the new world, cavities became a big problem.
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Dying at 33 prevented a lot of them as well.
 
finesse said:
Dying at 33 prevented a lot of them as well.
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This is not correct. The high infant mortality rate skewed the average age downwards but if you got through the childhood diseases, you had a pretty good chance of making it to 50 or 60 as long as you didn't live during one of the black plague epidemics. If you were rich, you had a pretty good chance of making it to 60 or 70.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
This is not correct. The high infant mortality rate skewed the average age downwards but if you got through the childhood diseases, you had a pretty good chance of making it to 50 or 60 as long as you didn't live during one of the black plague epidemics. If you were rich, you had a pretty good chance of making it to 60 or 70.
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It's correct for some of the time period under discussion. The problem is that the "Middle Ages" encompasses almost a millennium.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
This is not correct. The high infant mortality rate skewed the average age downwards but if you got through the childhood diseases, you had a pretty good chance of making it to 50 or 60 as long as you didn't live during one of the black plague epidemics. If you were rich, you had a pretty good chance of making it to 60 or 70.
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For a guy who has been all about average this and average that, you're balking at average life expectancies. Oh, and you might check the murder and execution rates as well.

I wonder how high those infant mortality rates were in comparison to any other time? The rates ,iirc, rose greatly as more women gave birth in urban hospitals. Rural, midwife and private births were much safer and probably improved. Things didn't really improve greatly until the late 19th century.
 
Paine said:
I grew up with well water. The tap water in Raleigh is a luxury. Consistently rated some of the best tasting tap water in the country. Bottled water so expensive and wasteful.
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Had no idea the tap water in Raleigh was so highly thought of. Thanks for sharing.
 
Europeans may not consume water with fluoride added, but they do consume fluoridated salt AND FLUORIDATED MILK, instead. Also, some countries have high enough fluoride occurring NATURALLY in their water so no need to add. Italy for example.

At the end of the day, fluoride in very small, daily amounts is a good thing. Make sure you brush your teeth with it. Perhaps the US can reduce the suggested amounts added to our drinking water… but to do away with it altogether without doing something similar to Europe (fluoride in the salt and milk) wouldn’t be the intelligent thing.

As far as listening to RFK on every little conspiracy theory of his? I’d rather listen to the Canadian Fruit Loop.

As a matter of fact, I’m going to start referring to RFK Junior, as just that - the Canadian Fruit loop
 
Peppers49 said:
Man this is just the quintessential GT contrarian thread lol. I only wish I could feel the type of rush he probably got when he posted this.
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He's not entirely wrong. It does seem to be something of an an open question among researchers.

But that's where it should stay for now -- among researchers, i.e. the people who can understand it.
 
Centerpiece said:
Europeans may not consume water with fluoride added, but they do consume fluoridated salt AND FLUORIDATED MILK, instead. Also, some countries have high enough fluoride occurring NATURALLY in their water so no need to add. Italy for example.

At the end of the day, fluoride in very small, daily amounts is a good thing. Make sure you brush your teeth with it. Perhaps the US can reduce the suggested amounts added to our drinking water… but to do away with it altogether without doing something similar to Europe (fluoride in the salt and milk) wouldn’t be the intelligent thing.

As far as listening to RFK on every little conspiracy theory of his? I’d rather listen to the Canadian Fruit Loop.

As a matter of fact, I’m going to start referring to RFK Junior, as just that - the Canadian Fruit loop
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I hate referring to Robert Kennedy, Jr. as “RFK.”

Canadian Fruit Loop is a much better name……just don’t use CFL.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
Also hard to learn with a lower IQ.
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The stats from that IQ study amount to a rounding error in an N 1000 dataset.
CFordUNC said:
We should start telling Republicans that dihydrogen monoxide turns you gay or trans- but only if you are Republican.
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Maybe better if we let them in on the secret - it’s not babies’ blood we all drink, it’s actually mercury tonics and arsenic enemas.
 
Zoo_View said:
I hate referring to Robert Kennedy, Jr. as “RFK.”

Canadian Fruit Loop is a much better name……just don’t use CFL.
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Yeah, I actually admired his dad in many ways. He was a flawed person in some ways but I did admire a lot of his positions, especially when he became a Senator after his brother was killed. He's probably rolling in his grave at Arlington given what his son has become, and is about to do to our nation's healthcare system.
 
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