Good faith privately-funded White House ballroom discussion

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Gmonet said:
I assure you I've forgotten 10x more about ME history than you'll ever know. The far right wingnuts in the US are a threat to this country because THEY'RE HERE and IN POWER. They affect me and my life and my children's future. The Mullahs in Iran are mostly irrelevant to me. I wish Iran was ruled differently - two of my very good friends are from families that had to flee in the 70s - but how they are ruled doesn't actually affect my life.

You know little about Islam if you think the religion itself 'teaches them to kill all non believers'. Do their leaders at times? Yes, as have untold numbers of Christian leaders throughout history, and I'd suspect, at least privately, some in the US today.
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We have Christian ministers here in the good old US of A, that advocate killing Trans people, gay people, non-believers, etc.

But they are overlooked by the same cult members that are in support of genocide in Gaza and blowing Oran off the face of the earth.
 
lawtig02 said:
www.documentcloud.org

Full text of the Iran nuclear deal

The accord will end decades of economic sanctions against Iran in exchange for restrictions on its nuclear program.
www.documentcloud.org www.documentcloud.org

Page 3 --

"Iran reaffirms that under no circumstances will Iran ever seek, develop or acquire any nuclear weapons."

Are you suggesting there's a difference between "reaffirms" and "agree"?
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But that was put in place by Obama, so drump had to get rid of it. Drump hated Obama ever since he found out he was born in Kenya...
 
lawtig02 said:
Soooo, you're saying Trump learned the hard way during his first term that it's difficult to reach a deal with the Iranians, even after Obama was able to do so? And yet, he launched an unprovoked war against them a few years later in order to persuade them to reach a deal?
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No, I'm saying obama reached a deal that was favorable to iran and when he got off his knees and wiped his mouth the rest of the world saw how flawed it was. That isn't negotiating skill, that is fellating iran and screwing the US, and putting us where we are now. Trump tried to negotiate a deal that was in the US's interest and addressed their ballistic missle program (i guess obama forgot about that). Iran didn't like that it wasn't going to get its way and now we are where we are. And the zzl's collective wisdom is to jcd the horribly flawed jcpoa by refusing to acknowledge its limitations, trust iran not to be bad, and wallow in partisan hypocrisy and inaccurately bitch that trump didn't get our okie dokie before so we are siding with iran because otherwise we might have to hold our nose and pull for trump because we hate trump more than iran and more than we love the US. That about sums up this board.
 
Callatoroy said:
No, we would have to fight a war in 2030 having to justify that yea, we told you you could but now we changed our minds and you can't.

Today, not what you wish it were or could have been or whatever, but as of may 5, 2026, iran has heu (that they can't put their hands on) and icbms. That is the reality today. US intelligence reports came out earlier today and estimated iran could have a bomb in 9 months to a year. That is what should be important to you. You want to wait 8 months and come back? Or fuck it. Let em have it. Because that is the reality today. There is no question they have the material that could be enriched further in a few weeks if they can get their hands on it.
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9 months, yet dear leaders flunkies started two weeks as justification for their unnecessary war.

We have to wonder if we can even trust these reports considering all the lies they report about the economy.

How can you read the Boateng lies about the economy from this administration, then trust them unconditionally in this topic?

WMD lies all over again. I feel for those, I'm not falling for this one. We don't need another quagmire in the middle east.
 
Callatoroy said:
lol I'm telling you iran placing integrity into any piece of paper and trying to present it as trustworthy is weak beyond belief. You are going to argue your point based on iran's integrity? If that is the case, why require advance notice of inspections? Why limit inspections? Why require to still maintain over 6000 centrifuges? Why require to be allowed to highly enrich uranium at the conclusion of the deal? They pinky swore didn't they?
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So instead of admitting you were wrong, you move the goal post over to questioning if they would do what they agreed to do?

Interesting, since everything I've read indicates that they were doing just that, until dear leader ripped up the agreement.

So maybe dear leader is to blame...
 
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Callatoroy said:
I keep repeating it because they were given permission to highly enrich uranium. What possible reason could there be for that? Tell me why you think iran would need or want highly enriched uranium if they have no intent to build a bomb?

And you ignoring the rest of the components as if they aren't important in the overall context of the agreement is disingenuous. It isn't a fact that trump fucked up. that is your opinion. learn fact from opinion. This is a fact. He didn't throw it in the trash can. He tried to renegotiate a better deal for months / years. Here is a timeline for you.

  • Initial Approach (2017-2018): Instead of immediately abandoning the deal upon taking office, Trump tasked U.S. and European negotiators to address what he termed "deficiencies" in the JCPOA.
  • Key Demands: Trump sought a new agreement that would include tighter restrictions on Iran’s ballistic missile program, permanent bans on Iran's nuclear enrichment rather than temporary "sunset clauses," and greater access for international inspectors to Iranian military sites.
  • Maximum Pressure: Following his withdrawal on May 8, 2018, Trump implemented a "maximum pressure" campaign, reimposing heavy economic sanctions with the goal of forcing Iran back to the table to negotiate a "better" deal.
  • Outcome: These efforts did not lead to a new agreement. Instead, Iran responded by reducing its compliance with the original agreement, decreasing its cooperation with international inspectors, and increasing its uranium enrichment.
    National Archives (.gov) +5
While Trump expressed willingness to negotiate a new deal, his withdrawal was seen by critics as destroying the existing, functioning framework rather than fixing it."

Obama never addressed their balistic missle program. No restrictions at all. None. You want to talk about fucking up. There is fuck up number 1.
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They would not have agreed to total disarming, how could they with Isreal there just waiting to bomb them? All Isreal needed was an ignorant dumb ass with military might to help them.

Hmmmm.....
 
Enigma94 said:
There are other uses for enriched uranium besides building bombs. A couple of well known uses are for energy production and medical purposes. That said, the JCPOA had strict guidelines for how they could do it and how much they could have. You seem to think we can just dictate terms to Iran without giving them anything. The JCPOA was an effective agreement that was working, as they had miniscule amounts of enriched uranium when it was abandoned.

I don't fault Trump for trying to improve the agreement. The problem is when Iran didn't fully capitulate to his desires he pitched a fit and threw the entire thing out and became antagonistic, leading to where we are today.

The JCPOA was a nuclear agreement, so adding missiles into it just would have complicated getting an agreement done even more. Obama didn't require them to stop killing gay people too, because that's not what he was negotiating. Again, you seem to think we have an ability to just dictate whatever terms we want to a large sovereign nation. That's not how it works and now we are finding out the consequences of thinking that way.
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You seem to ignore the jcpoa had sunset provisions. It wasn't in perpetuity. When the agreement concluded, iran was allowed to enrich uranium far beyond anything needed for power generation or medical use. The only use for highly enriched uranium is bomb making material. iran would have been allowed per the jcpoa to enrich uranium beyond that needed for the uses you identified. And nothing we could do but say please don't.

a nuclear bomb needs a missle to get where it is intended to go. They parallel each other. putting limits on one without the other is kind of meaningless because while you are waiting on 2030 to get here you are refining your missle program. There is a reason iran agreed to the jcpoa. It was hardly punitive to iran and gave them billions in funds to wage terror which they did.
 
UNCatTech said:
So instead of admitting you were wrong, you move the goal post over to questioning if they would do what they agreed to do?

Interesting, since everything I've read indicates that they were dying just that until fear leader ripped up the agreement.

So maybe dear leader is to blame...
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I didn't move anything and not going to play semantics games with you. You clearly know what I'm talking about. You are incorrect.
 
Callatoroy said:
No, I'm saying obama reached a deal that was favorable to iran and when he got off his knees and wiped his mouth the rest of the world saw how flawed it was. That isn't negotiating skill, that is fellating iran and screwing the US, and putting us where we are now. Trump tried to negotiate a deal that was in the US's interest and addressed their ballistic missle program (i guess obama forgot about that). Iran didn't like that it wasn't going to get its way and now we are where we are. And the zzl's collective wisdom is to jcd the horribly flawed jcpoa by refusing to acknowledge its limitations, trust iran not to be bad, and wallow in partisan hypocrisy and inaccurately bitch that trump didn't get our okie dokie before so we are siding with iran because otherwise we might have to hold our nose and pull for trump because we hate trump more than iran and more than we love the US. That about sums up this board.
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Come on, now. You know that’s ridiculous.
 
UNCatTech said:
We have Christian ministers here in the good old US of A, that advocate killing Trans people, gay people, non-believers, etc.

But they are overlooked by the same cult members that are in support of genocide in Gaza and blowing Oran off the face of the earth.
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where are they
 
Callatoroy said:
I didn't move anything and not going to play semantics games with you. You clearly know what I'm talking about. You are incorrect.
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You did, when it was pointed out that they agreed after you claimed they didn't.

What is that other than moving the goal post?
 
lawtig02 said:
Come on, now. You know that’s ridiculous.
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It's pointless. You point out to him what the agreement plainly said and he responds with, "oh so you are going to trust Iran???", but at the same time the agreement was terrible because it didn't contain everything under the sun. The agreement clearly states they will never pursue nukes and limits their ability to enrich uranium well below nuclear bomb requirements, but that's not good enough. But apparently if it had limits on missiles then that would have made it better, even though he won't give any credit to what it did contain since Iran isn't trustworthy. It's a fucking circle jerk.
 
Callatoroy said:
where are they
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Come one man the videos are all over the internet.

I watched one the other day where a preacher wanted to break a boys fingers because he wore fingernail polish.

There are so many examples, we should just stay another thread...

Hell, I've say in the pews and listened to preachers say all that is wrong with the LBGTQ community, then tell us how good lives everyone....
 
lawtig02 said:
So, if I'm understanding your position, Iran has never, and actually can't ever, agree to abandon its nuclear ambitions because, even when it does agree, like it did in the JCPOA, that agreement is not a REAL agreement because Iran has no integrity and we therefore can't assume they actually agreed to do what they agreed to do?

Doesn't that logic strike you as a little convenient for the position you're taking?

ETA -- Just so you know, this type of logic is pervasive in conservative politics, and once I started to recognize it for what it was, that, along with the GOP's inexplicable embrace of Donald Trump, is what caused me to run screaming from the Republican Party.
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And don’t forget that the whole point of the war is to get Iran to…wait for it…agree not to make nukes.
 
Callatoroy said:
No, I'm saying obama reached a deal that was favorable to iran and when he got off his knees and wiped his mouth the rest of the world saw how flawed it was.
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The entire rest of the world…except France, Germany, China, Russia, and the European Union, that is.
 
I love how calla consistently makes assertions that are quickly proven to be demonstrably false, and his go-to counter is we just aren’t as educated as he is on world affairs.
 
Callatoroy said:
incorrect.

Key Details on Inspection Times:
  • 24-Day Process: If the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) suspected prohibited nuclear activity at a location not previously declared, the JCPOA provided a multi-stage process for "managed access." If disputes over access could not be resolved by Iran and the IAEA within 14 days, a Joint Commission had up to 7 days to act, and Iran was given 3 more days to comply, resulting in a maximum potential 24-day delay.
  • Declared Facilities: For declared nuclear facilities, the IAEA had continuous, short-notice, or 24/7 access.
  • The 24-Hour Myth: While IAEA standard procedures often aim for 24-hour notice, critics and analysts highlighted that the JCPOA formalized a longer 24-day limit for suspicious undeclared sites in the event of a dispute.
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Here is where your ignorance of science bites you in the butt.

You seem to be imagining that Iran could have a thousand different declared locations, and just move its production around to avoid inspections.

In reality, that is impossible. So what happens is that the IAEA detects some sort of radiation signal or gets human intelligence about a new location; then Iran gets up to 24 days to comply with an inspection ONE TIME, and then forever after it's 24 hour notice.

You seem to think that an enrichment facility can be run out of someone's basement. That's just your gin tub, dude.
 
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