Good faith privately-funded White House ballroom discussion

[ChileG]

No, my argument is that your assertion that it allowed them to pursue a nuke is factually incorrect, so you should stop saying it. If your premise is they are untrustworthy and therefore would have violated the agreement that they signed, which ties them to the NPA, then my question is why didn't they violate it prior to Trump ripping it up? And if your premise is that they can't be trusted to follow any agreement, then what kind of agreement is Trump going to structure that will all of a sudden make it so they follow this magical new one? You seem to think the JCPOA was a bad agreement, but you don't acknowledge that prior to it being thrown in the trash can it was actually working.

One country did violate the agreement - the USA.

 

[lawtig02]

No it isn't. Iran has been pursuing nukes for decades. They know if they get a nuke they will be immune from many terrorist acts because the price for holding iran accountable will be to high. Israel's actions against iran have been defensive or to prevent a nuclear bomb. Iran isn't worried israel is going to nuke it, especially after oct 7. A nuclear armed iran means increased global terrorism. Do you think they will just sit back and say now that we have a bomb we are safe from the US or israel blowing us up so let's disband all the proxies we have and live in unison with all our neighbors. It just emboldens them further.

We have tried to negotiate the end of iran pursuing nukes for decades. Obama, trump, biden, trump. Obama bent over for them but they still wouldn't agree to abandon nukes. Doesn't matter who or what concessions made to appease them, the one thing they won't ever agree to is to end their nuclear goal. Either keep kicking the can or stop their ability. Many on here clearly see no issue beyond "i'd rather they didn't have a nuke but it isn't going to affect me so...........fuck trump"

Full text of the Iran nuclear deal

The accord will end decades of economic sanctions against Iran in exchange for restrictions on its nuclear program.

www.documentcloud.org

Page 3 --

"Iran reaffirms that under no circumstances will Iran ever seek, develop or acquire any nuclear weapons."

Are you suggesting there's a difference between "reaffirms" and "agree"?

 

[Enigma94]

Obama bent over for them but they still wouldn't agree to abandon nukes. Doesn't matter who or what concessions made to appease them, the one thing they won't ever agree to is to end their nuclear goal.

This is false. We keep telling you it's false and yet you keep repeating it. They literally agreed to it in the JCPOA.

 

[superrific]

Does any Democrat really think that our party will end the filibuster if they get control of the Senate ?

I have been a registered since 1972. We had the control of the Senate and House in 2021 and a Dem president. We could have ended the filibuster and rebalanced the SCOTUS, but we did not. It's just not in our DNA.

Yes, I do, for the reason that Trump I > Trump 2. Also, the Supreme Court got really, really out of control after 2020, and Dems know that needs to be fixed. We cannot run the government if the Supreme Court gets to veto whatever it wants.

 

[ChileG]

This is false. We keep telling you it's false and yet you keep repeating it. They literally agreed to it in the JCPOA.

Prepare to be ignored and then he will say the same thing again tomorrow (edit: I mean, in the next minute).

 

[Callatoroy]

It also isn't up for debate that the reason they have enriched uranium is because Trump ripped up the agreement that kept them in check. So now you want to follow him into another middle eastern war. We wouldn't be here if your guy wasn't an egomaniacal idiot.

No, we would have to fight a war in 2030 having to justify that yea, we told you you could but now we changed our minds and you can't.

Today, not what you wish it were or could have been or whatever, but as of may 5, 2026, iran has heu (that they can't put their hands on) and icbms. That is the reality today. US intelligence reports came out earlier today and estimated iran could have a bomb in 9 months to a year. That is what should be important to you. You want to wait 8 months and come back? Or fuck it. Let em have it. Because that is the reality today. There is no question they have the material that could be enriched further in a few weeks if they can get their hands on it.

 

[Enigma94]

No, we would have to fight a war in 2030 having to justify that yea, we told you you could but now we changed our minds and you can't.

Today, not what you wish it were or could have been or whatever, but as of may 5, 2026, iran has heu (that they can't put their hands on) and icbms. That is the reality today. US intelligence reports came out earlier today and estimated iran could have a bomb in 9 months to a year. That is what should be important to you. You want to wait 8 months and come back? Or fuck it. Let em have it. Because that is the reality today. There is no question they have the material that could be enriched further in a few weeks if they can get their hands on it.

WE DID NOT TELL THEM THEY COULD HAVE NUKES. I don't know how else to put it to you. The agreement explicitly says they are not allowed to ever have nukes. Why do you keep repeating that?

As for where we are now, will you acknowledge that we are here because Trump fucked up? Because if you won't you are too far into the cult to stipulate basic facts, which makes productive discussion difficult to say the least.

 

[1moretimeagain]

What part of iran has heu and an icbm do you not grasp? Nobody is questioning it. They fired a missle that traveled 2500 miles. It isn't up for debate.

Only 4700 miles short of hitting the US!

 

[Callatoroy]

Full text of the Iran nuclear deal

The accord will end decades of economic sanctions against Iran in exchange for restrictions on its nuclear program.

www.documentcloud.org

Page 3 --

"Iran reaffirms that under no circumstances will Iran ever seek, develop or acquire any nuclear weapons."

Are you suggesting there's a difference between "reaffirms" and "agree"?

lol I'm telling you iran placing integrity into any piece of paper and trying to present it as trustworthy is weak beyond belief. You are going to argue your point based on iran's integrity? If that is the case, why require advance notice of inspections? Why limit inspections? Why require to still maintain over 6000 centrifuges? Why require to be allowed to highly enrich uranium at the conclusion of the deal? They pinky swore didn't they?

 

[lawtig02]

lol I'm telling you iran placing integrity into any piece of paper and trying to present it as trustworthy is weak beyond belief. You are going to argue your point based on iran's integrity? If that is the case, why require advance notice of inspections? Why limit inspections? Why require to still maintain over 6000 centrifuges? Why require to be allowed to highly enrich uranium at the conclusion of the deal? They pinky swore didn't they?

So, if I'm understanding your position, Iran has never, and actually can't ever, agree to abandon its nuclear ambitions because, even when it does agree, like it did in the JCPOA, that agreement is not a REAL agreement because Iran has no integrity and we therefore can't assume they actually agreed to do what they agreed to do?

Doesn't that logic strike you as a little convenient for the position you're taking?

ETA -- Just so you know, this type of logic is pervasive in conservative politics, and once I started to recognize it for what it was, that, along with the GOP's inexplicable embrace of Donald Trump, is what caused me to run screaming from the Republican Party.

 

[heelinhell]

lol I'm telling you iran placing integrity into any piece of paper and trying to present it as trustworthy is weak beyond belief. You are going to argue your point based on iran's integrity? If that is the case, why require advance notice of inspections? Why limit inspections? Why require to still maintain over 6000 centrifuges? Why require to be allowed to highly enrich uranium at the conclusion of the deal? They pinky swore didn't they?

What was in that piece paper which contained Iran from enriching uranium ? That piece of paper did not rely on Iran integrity. There was 24 hour monitoring access to Iran activities. There was no limit on inspections. There was no allowance to enrich uranium at the end of the deal.
Where do you get this information ? It's obviously not from the JPOA.

 

[Gmonet]

So, if I'm understanding your position, Iran has never, and actually can't ever, agree to abandon its nuclear ambitions because, even when it does agree, like it did in the JCPOA, that agreement is not a REAL agreement because Iran has no integrity and we therefore can't assume they actually agreed to do what they agreed to do?

Doesn't that logic strike you as a little convenient for the position you're taking?

ETA -- Just so you know, this type of logic is pervasive in conservative politics, and once I started to recognize it for what it was, that, along with the GOP's inexplicable embrace of Donald Trump, is what caused me to run screaming from the Republican Party.

It's the absolute definition of insanity to accuse another party of lacking integrity and being unable to adhere to an agreement after they actually did adhere to an agreement that we then lacked the integrity to adhere to and petulantly voided. It's a total bizzarro world these people live in.

Just go ahead and admit you will justify anything that motherfucker does. You'll look a lot less stupid and hypocritical.

 

[Callatoroy]

WE DID NOT TELL THEM THEY COULD HAVE NUKES. I don't know how else to put it to you. The agreement explicitly says they are not allowed to ever have nukes. Why do you keep repeating that?

As for where we are now, will you acknowledge that we are here because Trump fucked up? Because if you won't you are too far into the cult to stipulate basic facts, which makes productive discussion difficult to say the least.

I keep repeating it because they were given permission to highly enrich uranium. What possible reason could there be for that? Tell me why you think iran would need or want highly enriched uranium if they have no intent to build a bomb?

And you ignoring the rest of the components as if they aren't important in the overall context of the agreement is disingenuous. It isn't a fact that trump fucked up. that is your opinion. learn fact from opinion. This is a fact. He didn't throw it in the trash can. He tried to renegotiate a better deal for months / years. Here is a timeline for you.

• Initial Approach (2017-2018): Instead of immediately abandoning the deal upon taking office, Trump tasked U.S. and European negotiators to address what he termed "deficiencies" in the JCPOA.
• Key Demands: Trump sought a new agreement that would include tighter restrictions on Iran’s ballistic missile program, permanent bans on Iran's nuclear enrichment rather than temporary "sunset clauses," and greater access for international inspectors to Iranian military sites.
• Maximum Pressure: Following his withdrawal on May 8, 2018, Trump implemented a "maximum pressure" campaign, reimposing heavy economic sanctions with the goal of forcing Iran back to the table to negotiate a "better" deal.
• Outcome: These efforts did not lead to a new agreement. Instead, Iran responded by reducing its compliance with the original agreement, decreasing its cooperation with international inspectors, and increasing its uranium enrichment.
  National Archives (.gov) +5

While Trump expressed willingness to negotiate a new deal, his withdrawal was seen by critics as destroying the existing, functioning framework rather than fixing it."

Obama never addressed their balistic missle program. No restrictions at all. None. You want to talk about fucking up. There is fuck up number 1.

 

[lawtig02]

I keep repeating it because they were given permission to highly enrich uranium. What possible reason could there be for that? Tell me why you think iran would need or want highly enriched uranium if they have no intent to build a bomb?

And you ignoring the rest of the components as if they aren't important in the overall context of the agreement is disingenuous. It isn't a fact that trump fucked up. that is your opinion. learn fact from opinion. This is a fact. He didn't throw it in the trash can. He tried to renegotiate a better deal for months / years. Here is a timeline for you.

• Initial Approach (2017-2018): Instead of immediately abandoning the deal upon taking office, Trump tasked U.S. and European negotiators to address what he termed "deficiencies" in the JCPOA.
• Key Demands: Trump sought a new agreement that would include tighter restrictions on Iran’s ballistic missile program, permanent bans on Iran's nuclear enrichment rather than temporary "sunset clauses," and greater access for international inspectors to Iranian military sites.
• Maximum Pressure: Following his withdrawal on May 8, 2018, Trump implemented a "maximum pressure" campaign, reimposing heavy economic sanctions with the goal of forcing Iran back to the table to negotiate a "better" deal.
• Outcome: These efforts did not lead to a new agreement. Instead, Iran responded by reducing its compliance with the original agreement, decreasing its cooperation with international inspectors, and increasing its uranium enrichment.
  National Archives (.gov) +5

While Trump expressed willingness to negotiate a new deal, his withdrawal was seen by critics as destroying the existing, functioning framework rather than fixing it."

Obama never addressed their balistic missle program. No restrictions at all. None. You want to talk about fucking up. There is fuck up number 1.

Soooo, you're saying Trump learned the hard way during his first term that it's difficult to reach a deal with the Iranians, even after Obama was able to do so? And yet, he launched an unprovoked war against them a few years later in order to persuade them to reach a deal?

 

[UNCatTech]

Educate yourself. That isn’t coming from trump. That is coming from nuclear experts. I never said 2 weeks I don’t believe. How close would you like to cut it? A day or two? Or not at all, just let em have it?

Trumps administration said two weeks.

Not at all, we didn't stop any other country from obtaining them, why are we only the works police in this case.

 

[Callatoroy]

What was in that piece paper which contained Iran from enriching uranium ? That piece of paper did not rely on Iran integrity. There was 24 hour monitoring access to Iran activities. There was no limit on inspections. There was no allowance to enrich uranium at the end of the deal.
Where do you get this information ? It's obviously not from the JPOA.

incorrect.

Key Details on Inspection Times:

• 24-Day Process: If the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) suspected prohibited nuclear activity at a location not previously declared, the JCPOA provided a multi-stage process for "managed access." If disputes over access could not be resolved by Iran and the IAEA within 14 days, a Joint Commission had up to 7 days to act, and Iran was given 3 more days to comply, resulting in a maximum potential 24-day delay.
• Declared Facilities: For declared nuclear facilities, the IAEA had continuous, short-notice, or 24/7 access.
• The 24-Hour Myth: While IAEA standard procedures often aim for 24-hour notice, critics and analysts highlighted that the JCPOA formalized a longer 24-day limit for suspicious undeclared sites in the event of a dispute.
  

 

[Enigma94]

I keep repeating it because they were given permission to highly enrich uranium. What possible reason could there be for that? Tell me why you think iran would need or want highly enriched uranium if they have no intent to build a bomb?

And you ignoring the rest of the components as if they aren't important in the overall context of the agreement is disingenuous. It isn't a fact that trump fucked up. that is your opinion. learn fact from opinion. This is a fact. He didn't throw it in the trash can. He tried to renegotiate a better deal for months / years. Here is a timeline for you.

• Initial Approach (2017-2018): Instead of immediately abandoning the deal upon taking office, Trump tasked U.S. and European negotiators to address what he termed "deficiencies" in the JCPOA.
• Key Demands: Trump sought a new agreement that would include tighter restrictions on Iran’s ballistic missile program, permanent bans on Iran's nuclear enrichment rather than temporary "sunset clauses," and greater access for international inspectors to Iranian military sites.
• Maximum Pressure: Following his withdrawal on May 8, 2018, Trump implemented a "maximum pressure" campaign, reimposing heavy economic sanctions with the goal of forcing Iran back to the table to negotiate a "better" deal.
• Outcome: These efforts did not lead to a new agreement. Instead, Iran responded by reducing its compliance with the original agreement, decreasing its cooperation with international inspectors, and increasing its uranium enrichment.
  National Archives (.gov) +5

While Trump expressed willingness to negotiate a new deal, his withdrawal was seen by critics as destroying the existing, functioning framework rather than fixing it."

Obama never addressed their balistic missle program. No restrictions at all. None. You want to talk about fucking up. There is fuck up number 1.

There are other uses for enriched uranium besides building bombs. A couple of well known uses are for energy production and medical purposes. That said, the JCPOA had strict guidelines for how they could do it and how much they could have. You seem to think we can just dictate terms to Iran without giving them anything. The JCPOA was an effective agreement that was working, as they had miniscule amounts of enriched uranium when it was abandoned.

I don't fault Trump for trying to improve the agreement. The problem is when Iran didn't fully capitulate to his desires he pitched a fit and threw the entire thing out and became antagonistic, leading to where we are today.

The JCPOA was a nuclear agreement, so adding missiles into it just would have complicated getting an agreement done even more. Obama didn't require them to stop killing gay people too, because that's not what he was negotiating. Again, you seem to think we have an ability to just dictate whatever terms we want to a large sovereign nation. That's not how it works and now we are finding out the consequences of thinking that way.

 

[UNCatTech]

I reject the idea that Iran would launch a nuke at first opportunity any more than I think NK would, which has been proven accurate and NK is just as or more insane as Iran is. This is the same kind of argument around Saddam's WMD's, that is we have to act before he does something terrible. So far you are correct on one count that the cost of this war hasn't been that great, but it is teetering on the verge of something much larger. I'm warning against making the same mistake again. I support selling arms to Israel as I believe it benefits our defense industry, but that's where it should stop. And beyond all of these points, when the POTUS is an unmitigated disaster of a decision maker it behooves us to stand against him getting us involved in another Middle Eastern war even more. This all also just glosses over the fact that Iran had negligible amounts of enriched uranium when the agreement was in place and only after Trump tore it up did they re-start their program. You can say they would have anyway until you are blue in the face, but the fact is the agreement was working and anything else is conjecture.

Exactly, their premis needs this conclusion for validity, yet there is no evidence to support their position. The truth is, this administration and many maga, just like to destroy stuff. It's like they can't separate their video games and the real world.

The real world where Isreal and the US are killing children and average working class people in the name of revenge.

 

[BillOfRights]

 

[UNCatTech]

Why do you keeping lying about the terms of Obama's deal? And then you call us dishonest or weak or whatever other self-projecting insult you lob with regularity.

I don't have a pretzel mode at all. I'm not worried at all about Iran having a nuke on a ballistic missile. Why not? Because the Soviet Union -> Russia has way more of them. China too. North Korea has some. And yet nobody has ever fired one. It's almost as if nuclear deterrents work.

Your fever swamp dreams about Iran are just pure anti-Muslim bias.

Well no one other than the US has fired one....