Green Party’s goal is to make Kamala lose

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Centerpiece said:
Do you think any other nation or president, etc. can effect real change in that region? The battle lines and animosity were drawn decades ago, even centuries ago. Eisenhower, Kennedy, Nixon, Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Bush, O'Bama, Trump, Biden, Harris - they can all send money/weapons - or NOT send any money or weapons - to either side. The divisions and animosity will continue in that region. IMHO, to hold VP Harris as some how "responsible" for that fire drill over there is disingenuous at best if not literally laughable. Carter came the closest to creating "some" real change at Camp David in the 1970's.

Also, what exactly is the motivation behind the woman in the video/Stein/Green Party to sabotage Harris? Why would they want trump in the oval office? Specifics please - anybody?
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I do think that the president of the most powerful country to ever exist can affect change in the region. It starts with cutting off offensive weapons to Israel as long as they are using them to violate international and U.S. law. You can’t do anything else without starting there.
 
Paine said:
I do think that the president of the most powerful country to ever exist can affect change in the region. It starts with cutting off offensive weapons to Israel as long as they are using them to violate international and U.S. law. You can’t do anything else without starting there.
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Got it. But as VP, can Harris do anything like that unilaterally? Did trump do that? No, he is Netanyayu's (sp? - sic) lapdog as much as he his Putin's. So given that, why would GP want trump instead of Harris? That is my main question. Yes, stop sending "offensive" weapons, I get that. But would trump do that? No.

Also, the GP is for: Ecology; Social Justice (demand a living wage and a real safety net.); and Democracy... Harris checks all 3 of those boxes. trumpy? Not so much.

No, I'm sorry Stein and the GP are way off base here in calling for trump over Harris... and it's not even close and really, no debate in which candidate will be better for the U.S. and the World.
 
@Paine I don't have anything of substance to add to this conversation other than to say, holy smokes, man, I really enjoy reading and learning from your posts. You very frequently present perspectives, viewpoints, and information which I'd never known or considered. So glad to have you on this board.
 
Paine said:
I do think that the president of the most powerful country to ever exist can affect change in the region. It starts with cutting off offensive weapons to Israel as long as they are using them to violate international and U.S. law. You can’t do anything else without starting there.
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I am forever amused by the leftist impulses to selectively consider the track record the United States has in the exercise of its power to promote internal change in other nations. Throw out all of Latin America, Iran, Iraq, etc, but this time it'll be fine and we'll have no negative consequences. Our track record, one must concede, is at very best a mixed bag.

I do agree that we would be much better off withholding offensive armaments to Israel. At least until they agree to a long-term ceasefire, and potentially beyond.
 
StrangePackage said:
I am forever amused by the leftist impulses to selectively consider the track record the United States has in the exercise of its power to promote internal change in other nations. Throw out all of Latin America, Iran, Iraq, etc, but this time it'll be fine and we'll have no negative consequences. Our track record, one must concede, is at very best a mixed bag.

I do agree that we would be much better off withholding offensive armaments to Israel. At least until they agree to a long-term ceasefire, and potentially beyond.
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You think leftists are the ones who ignore U.S. imperialism and regime change in Latin America and the Middle East…?

I’m not advocating a coup to overthrow the Netanyahu government. Haven’t seen any leftist who has.
 
CFordUNC said:
@Paine I don't have anything of substance to add to this conversation other than to say, holy smokes, man, I really enjoy reading and learning from your posts. You very frequently present perspectives, viewpoints, and information which I'd never known or considered. So glad to have you on this board.
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Appreciate you too, brother!
 
Centerpiece said:
Got it. But as VP, can Harris do anything like that unilaterally? Did trump do that? No, he is Netanyayu's (sp? - sic) lapdog as much as he his Putin's. So given that, why would GP want trump instead of Harris? That is my main question. Yes, stop sending "offensive" weapons, I get that. But would trump do that? No.

Also, the GP is for: Ecology; Social Justice (demand a living wage and a real safety net.); and Democracy... Harris checks all 3 of those boxes. trumpy? Not so much.

No, I'm sorry Stein and the GP are way off base here in calling for trump over Harris... and it's not even close and really, no debate in which candidate will be better for the U.S. and the World.
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Agree with you there. The GP is unserious and any leftist who understands electoralism should vote for Harris, especially in a swing state.

Harris can’t do anything unilaterally, of course. It would be more akin to Humphrey breaking with Johnson on Vietnam at this point. It was too late for him, but it did help.
 
Paine said:
You think leftists are the ones who ignore U.S. imperialism and regime change in Latin America and the Middle East…?

I’m not advocating a coup to overthrow the Netanyahu government. Haven’t seen any leftist who has.
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I think they have a very big blind spot in our historical record when it comes to Palestine.

I don't see Netanyahu stopping anytime soon, with or without US armaments. He needs these wars to maintain power, and he can likely prosecute them without our aid for quite some time. Do you see him stopping, and under what circumstances?
 
StrangePackage said:
I think they have a very big blind spot in our historical record when it comes to Palestine.

I don't see Netanyahu stopping anytime soon, with or without US armaments. He needs these wars to maintain power, and he can likely prosecute them without our aid for quite some time. Do you see him stopping, and under what circumstances?
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In my view, Israel is allowed to act with impunity due to the license that U.S. backing gives them. I don’t know if U.S. suspending offensive arms to Israel would force him to reconsider in the short term, for the reasons you mention about him maintaining power via these conflicts.

That being said, international isolation is what has changed situations like these before. We could’ve already had a mandated cease fire if the U.S. would stop blocking the UN resolutions to do so.

I’d be curious to hear more about the blind spots that leftists tend to have on Palestinian history. My experience tends to be that leftists are some of the only Americans who know the history of the region.
 
Centerpiece said:
Also, what exactly is the motivation behind the woman in the video/Stein/Green Party to sabotage Harris? Why would they want trump in the oval office? Specifics please - anybody?
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Extremists hate people who agree with them on 95% of things more than people who disagree on almost everything. Purity matters more than results.
 
Paine said:
In my view, Israel is allowed to act with impunity due to the license that U.S. backing gives them. I don’t know if U.S. suspending offensive arms to Israel would force him to reconsider in the short term, for the reasons you mention about him maintaining power via these conflicts.

That being said, international isolation is what has changed situations like these before. We could’ve already had a mandated cease fire if the U.S. would stop blocking the UN resolutions to do so.

I’d be curious to hear more about the blind spots that leftists tend to have on Palestinian history. My experience tends to be that leftists are some of the only Americans who know the history of the region.
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Jill Stein is a Russian asset

Third Way

www.thirdway.org www.thirdway.org
 
I had this insight last night.

Pro-Palestine, Green, ultra-progressive, whatever, think of it as if you're caught in a rip tide. You see the shore, your goal is the shore, you want to be on the shore. Do you swim towards the shore? No, you don't , because that's a ******* death trap.

You don't have a choice but to swim parallel to the shore until you are out if the rip current. Honestly, sucks to be you (but equally, sucks to be all of us, we're all in this together), but you're caught in a ******* rip, do what it takes to survive and live to see another day.

If you want to live, you'll swim parallel to your goal long enough to get out of the rip and into a place where you can make forward progress to your goal. That's the best advice I can give you.
 
Paine said:
Harris can’t do anything unilaterally, of course. It would be more akin to Humphrey breaking with Johnson on Vietnam at this point. It was too late for him, but it did help.
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Helped him win Minnesota??
 
Yeah, I got all discombobulated on that one, for some reason I was thinking Humphry only won his home state in 68, I think I was confusing him with McGovern in 72. My bad...
 
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