Gun Control & Gun Rights Catch-All Thread

finesse said:
While I don't see much use in the ban, I highly object to the use of rare with this rate of increase in since 1970.

  • Incidence of school shootings increasing dramatically: In the 53 years leading up to May 2022, the number of school shootings annually increased more than 12 times.
  • Children more likely to be victims. The likelihood of children being school shooting victims has increased more than fourfold, and the rate of death from school shootings has risen more than sixfold.
It also seems at the very least misguided to equate school shootings and gun violence in the inner cities.
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I can't see your source, so I have no idea which metric they are using to define school shootings. However, if they are using the common metric "at least one person shot or injured on school property", then a very large proportion of those shootings are indeed a result of gang (or wannabe gang) violence.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
I'd argue that the bolded portion is a comment that only privileged people can make. You can't avoid gang violence if you are stuck in a gang controlled neighborhood because you can't afford to live anywhere else.
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You don't say...

You keep giving people grief about wanting gun control because their white suburbs feel more dangerous than they actually are, because of the out of proportion impact school shootings have on their sense of safety. You try to paint them as racists, saying they don't give an ish about the poor black kids dying every day in gang shootings, but are demanding gun control because of the 1/100,000 (or whatever it is) chance that their kid's school might be next.

You ignore the fact that the gang controlled neighborhoods would be the ones with the most to gain from stricter gun control. It may be the unrealistic fears of suburban white schools getting shot up that drives them to want gun control, but there will be a a significantly disproportionate benefit to the poor black (and hispanic) neighborhoods where shootings are currently an every day occurrence.

If you make it VERY difficult to get or keep an illegal gun... it will have a huge benefit on gang controlled neighborhoods... and have a slight impact on the level of safety of your average suburb. It's an interesting point to make... but it seems one you are more interested in throwing in people's faces to score points (you liberals claim to champion the poor, but don't care about the young black kids dying every day)... rather than use it as a point convergence which should bring both sides together.
 
NYCBlueBlood said:
You don't say...

You keep giving people grief about wanting gun control because their white suburbs feel more dangerous than they actually are, because of the out of proportion impact school shootings have on their sense of safety. You try to paint them as racists, saying they don't give an ish about the poor black kids dying every day in gang shootings, but are demanding gun control because of the 1/100,000 (or whatever it is) chance that their kid's school might be next.

You ignore the fact that the gang controlled neighborhoods would be the ones with the most to gain from stricter gun control. It may be the unrealistic fears of suburban white schools getting shot up that drives them to want gun control, but there will be a a significantly disproportionate benefit to the poor black (and hispanic) neighborhoods where shootings are currently an every day occurrence.

If you make it VERY difficult to get or keep an illegal gun... it will have a huge benefit on gang controlled neighborhoods... and have a slight impact on the level of safety of your average suburb. It's an interesting point to make... but it seems one you are more interested in throwing in people's faces to score points (you liberals claim to champion the poor, but don't care about the young black kids dying every day)... rather than use it as a point convergence which should bring both sides together.
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Did you see the video I posted above? In no state is it legal for a 14 year old to buy a Glock switch and bring it to school. There were 20 guns in a middle school gym in the video posted. That's already massively against the law. Instead of passing new laws which would be ignored just like the current ones are, a better enforcement of current laws would make a tremendous difference. Take the video posted above...instead of shrugging it off, they should have sent the SWAT team in to raid the school and search every single locker, every single backpack and every single student. Anyone caught with an illegal firearm should have been tried as an adult.

The kids using guns to kill each other in high-crime areas aren't buying those weapons legally. They are buying them off of the street or stealing them, things that are already illegal.
 
99.99% of gun owners that have guns in their homes for "safety and protection" issues, never actually have to use them for those reasons. With such an insignificant low percentage of guns ever used for protection, it is an obvious overreaction. We need to stop exaggerating the use for protection.

Look, there are risks in everything, driving, flying, medical procedures. Stop the hysteria about gun defense in your own home. It just causes a huge percentage of people to buy and keep dangerous weapons in their homes. It changes nothing.

99.99% man, statistics!
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
Did you see the video I posted above? In no state is it legal for a 14 year old to buy a Glock switch and bring it to school. There were 20 guns in a middle school gym in the video posted. That's already massively against the law. Instead of passing new laws which would be ignored just like the current ones are, a better enforcement of current laws would make a tremendous difference. Take the video posted above...instead of shrugging it off, they should have sent the SWAT team in to raid the school and search every single locker, every single backpack and every single student. Anyone caught with an illegal firearm should have been tried as an adult.

The kids using guns to kill each other in high-crime areas aren't buying those weapons legally. They are buying them off of the street or stealing them, things that are already illegal.
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Where do you think those guns are coming from? All those gun factories in the inner city? There are real and meaningful common sense restrictions which could have a MASSIVE impact on the flow of guns from the suburbs and exurbs into the inner city. Gun nuts stop them from happening. Locking up another generation of young black men so their kids grow up without fathers like they did... does not seem like a well thought out plan.
 
Kraftyheel89 said:
99.99% of gun owners that have guns in their homes for "safety and protection" issues, ever actually have to use them for those reasons. With such an insignificant low percentage of guns ever used for protection, it is an obvious overreaction. We need to stop exaggerating the use for protection.

Look, there are risks in everything, driving, flying, medical procedures. Stop the hysteria about gun defense in your own home. It just causes a huge percentage of people to buy and keep dangerous weapons in their homes. It changes nothing.

99.99% man, statistics!
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Do you have smoke detectors? Airbags in your car? Do you wear your seatbelt when you drive somewhere? What are you worried about?
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
They bought back the equivalent of a third of one percent of the guns that are in circulation in the United States. They are also an island with no land borders with which to smuggle guns through.
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If we went this route, it may take decades. I would be okay with that.
 
NYCBlueBlood said:
Where do you think those guns are coming from? All those gun factories in the inner city? There are real and meaningful common sense restrictions which could have a MASSIVE impact on the flow of guns from the suburbs and exurbs into the inner city. Gun nuts stop them from happening. Locking up another generation of young black men so their kids grow up without fathers like they did... does not seem like a well thought out plan.
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Those guns are being bought illegally by straw buyers, smuggled in illegally via gangs, or are being stolen. All three actions are already illegal. Without debating a single new law, gun crime could be immensely reduced simply by focusing on enforcing the laws that are already on the books. Passing laws to limit the possession of firearms by law-abiding citizens would only serve to keep the criminals armed while disarming their victims.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
This is never going to happen. There are over 400 million guns in this country.
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That's the attitude. Nothing we can do to lessen the amount of easily assessable guns

NYCBlueBlood said:
The idea that a few white guys in the music industry have found a way to make millions off of one of the few marketable things coming out of black projects is not evidence that gangs are not shunned.
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Mad at the music industry. Cool with the gun industry

2ManyBlueCups said:
The kids using guns to kill each other in high-crime areas aren't buying those weapons legally. They are buying them off of the street or stealing them, things that are already illegal.
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When those guns leave the factory they are legal and paid for
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
Those guns are being bought illegally by straw buyers, smuggled in illegally via gangs, or are being stolen. All three actions are already illegal. Without debating a single new law, gun crime could be immensely reduced simply by focusing on enforcing the laws that are already on the books. Passing laws to limit the possession of firearms by law-abiding citizens would only serve to keep the criminals armed while disarming their victims.
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I would suspect that the vast majority of guns in "gang members'" hands were bought legally. The ultimate user of the gun may have procured the gun illegally, but if there were tougher legal restrictions on the ease of which to legally purchase guns, that in turn would make it harder to get them illegally. That hits directly at straw purchasers and stolen guns.

And yeah, it may take a long time to see positive results. It would not happen overnight. And that's okay.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
Do you have smoke detectors? Airbags in your car? Do you wear your seatbelt when you drive somewhere? What are you worried about?
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Wait, so you are taking the exact opposite position now?

I just laid out your entire ridiculous argument exactly as you did. But now you are attacking that line of thinking because I substituted guns for human life.

Wow, you are way too easy. Not even a challenge.
 
roostra said:
I would suspect that the vast majority of guns in "gang members'" hands were bought legally. The ultimate user of the gun may have procured the gun illegally, but if there were tougher legal restrictions on the ease of which to legally purchase guns, that in turn would make it harder to get them illegally. That hits directly at straw purchasers and stolen guns.

And yeah, it may take a long time to see positive results. It would not happen overnight. And that's okay.
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It isn't OK for the interim years...decades....however long when law-abiding citizens are unable to defend themselves while gang members remain heavily armed. No one is going to willingly agree to surrender their right to protection while criminals are freely armed. When seconds count, the police are minutes to hours away.
 
Kraftyheel89 said:
Wait, so you are taking the exact opposite position now?

I just laid out your entire ridiculous argument exactly as you dud. But now you are attacking that line if thinking because I substituted guns for human life.

Wow, you are way too easy. Not even a challenge.
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No, you misinterpreted my argument and made a separate one. My argument wasn't that bad things don't happen. It is that we should take appropriate precautions but not dwell on them. Car accidents happen. Wear your seatbelt. Fires happen. Make sure you have working smoke alarms. Home invasions happen. Make sure you are able to protect yourself and your family. All boxes checked? Perfect, then enjoy life.
 
2ManyBlueCups said:
They bought back the equivalent of a third of one percent of the guns that are in circulation in the United States. They are also an island with no land borders with which to smuggle guns through.
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You're right, I forgot we shouldn't try to save kids because saving kids is hard work. My bad.
 
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