Has right wing media pushed conservatives further right

HeelInTheOzarks said:
People are ok with a lot of ideas Rush Limbaugh etc would hate. But they do carry his legacy of despising the leaders who would advance them in government.
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It goes beyond just the politicians.

Right wingers hate the tens of millions who vote for those politicians, despite the RWs actually agreeing with LOTS of the policies. They hate us because of the label, despite “liberals” merely voting for the advancement of policy that most of us collectively agree are good. This is a decent jump off 100 policies supported by majorities of Democrats and Republicans | YouGov. Now, which party do you think actually tries to make these policies happen?

For all the gnashing about populism vs bigotry, I always come back to this: when authors of policy are removed, surveys demonstrate that the policies of liberal pols are consistently well above, and often overwhelmingly above, the waterline.

It’s not policy. It’s marketing. It’s inculcation.

And mind you, I’m no liberal on the basis of identity. I agreed with more liberal policies and critiques, starting with the war in Iraq, despite an upbringing and 20+ years of a virulently conservative milieu and attendance at the most conservative public institution in the country. I vote for liberal pols because they will push policy that most conservatives AND liberals agree with. I have a similar level of disdain towards the politician class as most RWs; however, I’m more willing to vote for actual policies than for empty slogans and irrational revenge against people who actually agree with me on most normal American issues.
 
Fox and Limbaugh just filled an unmet need/market, It was obvious 75 years ago the network talking heads were biased
 
Paine said:
I was convinced by the Selzer poll, the strength of Harris’ ground game, etc.
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I think Selzer was so far off because many people told her they were going to do one thing and ultimately did the exact opposite.

As for ground game... If I never hear about her ground game again it'll be too soon.
 
chrissteel said:
Seems to me Trump has pushed the gop left. He is more a populist than anything else. He would love to forget about the abortion question, protect us industries, tariffs, ignore deficits, etc. If anything Trump has pushed conservative media left just a little. Conservatives are the one that feel left out. They just have no where to go
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Trump would love to forget about abortion during his 2024 campaign. That was not the case in 2016 or during his first term.

Yesterday I was thinking about how, for the first time in my adult life, the Pro-life movement was quiet as a mouse during the election season.
 
NCK9 said:
Has right wing media pushed Bill Maher further right?

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Bill is a loon in the mold of RFK,Jr. when it comes health issues and a Pamela Geller loon when it comes to Islam...

I think the number of joints he has smoked over the last 15 years has pickled his brain 😏
 
Paine said:
Listen to his shows recently. He’s always been a reactionary but he’s taken it to a new level the past few years. Just an elitist ass.
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A long time ago when he had Politically Incorrect on the Comedy Channel pretty regularly. I thought he had some really interesting questions to ask and wasn't afraid to ask them. I appreciated that. I haven't listened to him other than soundbites in decades so I don't know if this is still true. I felt like the reason he was good at questions was because he had some of the world's dumbest answers. So don't rule out stupid.
 
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Where do I fall on the spectrum? I consider myself fairly conservative

Things I support:

First trimester abortion - abortion at any time if mother's health in jeopardy or fetus with serious birth defects, incest / rape
Stem Cell Research
Strong border security - legal immigration overhaul to expedite citizenship process / merit based immigration citizenship
Strong national defense (much more so than where we stand today)
Prison reform
Term Limits for congress and SCJ
Strong election security overhaul
Balanced Budget Amendment
Making Daylight Saving Time permenant
Global Warming & common sense environmental control measures
Some gun control measures
Death Penalty
America First initiatives
Personal and Corporate tax code reform
welfare reform
obamacare (with some modifications) I admit I was wrong when I initially opposed it
Harsh penalties for abusive cops/those in public trust jobs including politicians
State control of education with school choice and free community college tuition
Limited Deregulation of businesses (compared to where we are right now)
 
CFordUNC said:
and folks like me who thought that it was great campaign strategy to try to court disaffected Republicans, were flat out wrong. In hindsight, it was a terrible campaign strategy.
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It wasn't a terrible campaign strategy. If it had been the strategy from the beginning, maybe so. But they didn't start campaigning together until the last couple of weeks, and that was an attempt to pick off as many straggling votes as possible.

I think the campaign knew better than we did that it was behind. nycfan said David Plouffe seemed nervous on TV the day before. I didn't see it, but maybe she was right. Maybe the emails about being behind -- the ones that we thought were running through the tape -- were not.

Anyway, if people were really voting on economic issues, it was baked a long time ago. Inflation is gone. The economy is great. People were voting based on 2022. There's nothing we can do about that now.

As you know, I've seen nothing to lead me to believe that it was the economy that sunk her. This election was all about cultural shit -- racism, trans, etc. That "Kamala is for they/them" ad was unfortunately very well done, in that it resonated with people who don't know better.

The biggest mistake Dems made was going all-in on trans rights. I said as much a while ago. I completely understand that we feel that it's important to stand up for everyone's rights, but the reality is that now everyone has fewer rights and will be in much worse shape than if we had shut up about trans. We should have at least been like, "no biological males in women's sports." Draw a line. Yes, it's ridiculous but if we want votes of idiots then we have to speak to them in their language.
 
Callatoroy said:
Where do I fall on the spectrum? I consider myself fairly conservative

Things I support:

First trimester abortion - abortion at any time if mother's health in jeopardy or fetus with serious birth defects, incest / rape
Stem Cell Research
Strong border security - legal immigration overhaul to expedite citizenship process / merit based immigration citizenship
Strong national defense (much more so than where we stand today)
Prison reform
Term Limits for congress and SCJ
Strong election security overhaul
Balanced Budget Amendment
Making Daylight Saving Time permenant
Global Warming & common sense environmental control measures
Some gun control measures
Death Penalty
America First initiatives
Personal and Corporate tax code reform
welfare reform
obamacare (with some modifications) I admit I was wrong when I initially opposed it
Harsh penalties for abusive cops/those in public trust jobs including politicians
State control of education with school choice and free community college tuition
Limited Deregulation of businesses (compared to where we are right now)
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Ah yes. The classic Republican potpourri. Balanced Budget Amendment + a whole Christmas tree worth of additional spending.

What you have laid out is impossible. Scratch the Balanced Budget Amendment (which is truly one of the worst ideas in American politics of this generation, at least prior to 2016) and maybe.
 
finesse said:
I really think it boils down a lot to personality types and indoctrination these days. You are either more comfortable with a paternalistic religion that tells you what is right and what to believe and give you a hierarchy of advancement and improvement to follow.
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The authoritarian personality has been a thing for a century. It contributed to fascism's rise in Europe in the 20s. It has contributed to fascism's rise in America in the 20s.

I've recited studies showing that racial attitudes and racial geography are by far the most predictive indicators of Trump support -- except I left out one. It seems minor, but it's not and I can't remember if it sits just below the racial attitudes or on par. It's how a person answers this question:

If you had to choose, would you rather your children be creative or obedient? [or other versions of that question, like which is more important to you for your kids, creativity or obedience]

If you answer that question in favor of obedience, you are very likely to be Trumplican.
 
superrific said:
The authoritarian personality has been a thing for a century. It contributed to fascism's rise in Europe in the 20s. It has contributed to fascism's rise in America in the 20s.

I've recited studies showing that racial attitudes and racial geography are by far the most predictive indicators of Trump support -- except I left out one. It seems minor, but it's not and I can't remember if it sits just below the racial attitudes or on par. It's how a person answers this question:

If you had to choose, would you rather your children be creative or obedient? [or other versions of that question, like which is more important to you for your kids, creativity or obedience]

If you answer that question in favor of obedience, you are very likely to be Trumplican.
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I knew so many of my kids' relatives that obedience never crossed my mind.
 
Paine said:
Please explain to me how Dems went “all in on trans rights.” Harris said nothing about trans people at all. This is a fabrication by the same consultant class that has now lost two elections against Trump. They’re looking for a scapegoat.
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Not Harris. Dems. Liberals.

Look, IDGAF about trans women in women's sports. But obviously some of the voters do. It's the whole "out of touch liberal" thing. We could have sponsored a "no trans in girl's sports" type of regulation, while preserving trans access to education. Biden extended full Title IX protections to trans individuals, which was dumb because it was obvious that it would just get swatted by the courts so it would help nobody and possibly cost us at the ballot box.

We seemed to get a lot of mileage out of "weird" but that probably would have landed more cleanly if we weren't defending people that voters deem far more weird.
 
Paine said:
So you argument for how Democrats went “all in” is that Biden extended Title IX protections to trans people and then it wasn’t even upheld? And that’s why they lost the election?

If the party comes away with same conclusions that you have then God help us. We’re not going to win working class people back over by dehumanizing trans people more than the right.

The transphobia of the average person is only an issue insofar as it cements the notion that Democrats are out of touch. The way you combat this is through authentic, working-class candidates and a Democratic Party that is focused on bread and butter economic issues. You don’t have to talk about trans people at all when you talk about rights for everyone.
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Did I say dehumanize people more than the right? I'm pretty sure I said the opposite. Give up the extreme case to protect the middle.

You say that you can combat this with bread and butter issues but there's really not a lot of evidence for that at all. Read about the 2004 election. How did Bush win, even though he took us into a war that everyone knew was a fiasco? He ran against gay marriage. The Pubs ran against gay marriage everywhere. That is why, if you recall, Obama was reluctant to come out in favor of gay marriage. It was a political nightmare.

The right-wing strategy forever, and I'm sure you know this, has been divide and conquer. You're likely familiar with the Hofstatder thesis (which has aged quite well) that American presidential elections are almost never fought over the important issues of the day. That's not entirely true any more; Obama in 2008 ran on health care, as did Bill Clinton to a lesser extent in 1992. But Republicans ALWAYS try to make elections about meaningless symbolic bullshit. Flag burning. Patriotism. Someone getting a sex change operation while in prison. And they do it because it works. Because bread and butter issues are boring.

Of course, the other reason that bread-and-butter issues rarely win is that they just don't motivate people the way outrage over cultural things do.

We live in a world where Bud Light hired a trans influencer to be among one of many, many marketing personalities, and the conservatives boycotted. And for the first time in recent memory, their boycott worked.
 
superrific said:
Ah yes. The classic Republican potpourri. Balanced Budget Amendment + a whole Christmas tree worth of additional spending.

What you have laid out is impossible. Scratch the Balanced Budget Amendment (which is truly one of the worst ideas in American politics of this generation, at least prior to 2016) and maybe.
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There is no additional spending or reprioritized spending. I can assure you I'm not for spending more.
 
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