Hot Stove: UNC Basketball

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duluoz said:
I’d take 5 guys on the court battling like those two teams did last night, consistently over the whole season. Then I don’t give a crap what their record or ranking is. That’ll take care of itself.

I didn’t see a ton of that out of Ian Jackson, so I’m not shedding tears over his departure either. Culture. Bring in the dogs, no matter how many stars next to their names.
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Can the current staff determine who the dogs are?
 
Heelsandeers said:
He played out of position most of the season

More reps and standards lineups and any freshman would improve defensively

How many EC/RJ-Ian-Drake-Withers-Lubin mins did we even see?
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I just have a hard time understanding why Portal PG - Jackson - Powell - Wilson - Veesar wouldn't have been attractive to him. I mean, I sort of think the same about Elliott. To the degree that our roster was FUBAR last year because we missed on a big, this season with all our guards back would seem to be a perfect roster for them. Eh. Just frustrating.

It's just weird looking at that ESPN starter roster projected a few posts back and realizing that I have no connection to any of those players except Seth.
 
Bigs23 said:
It appears that you are missing what is going on in CBB.

Just about every roster is turning over and a high % of athletes are claiming that they were not developed, not coached correctly, not put in the right situation, not playing enough, not getting paid enough, not getting enough shots, not appreciated enough, etc. and leaving for greener grass.

It’s amazing that this is happening to so many 18 and 19 year college athletes all at the same time isn’t it?
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Justin Jackson's solution to this, and it was simple and would be incredibly effective, is to limit the number of transfers a player can make without penalty. I have no clue what the legal issues are here, but it would make a ton of these players think twice about transferring every year.
 
superrific said:
I believe the poster was questioning whether "I'm not being developed" is an excuse for not putting in the work needed to develop.

Shammond Williams "developed" by shooting jumpers at the gym until midnight. While the coaching staff and the court opportunities play a role, if the player isn't going to put in the work off the court, it's not going to work.

Vince Carter, for instance, might have transferred after his freshman year in today's world. He wasn't getting enough opportunity, he might say. What actually needed to happen was for him to work harder on his shot, handle and defense. And to his credit, he did all that -- probably putting in extra hours all year long. Had he transferred, I suspect he would not have worked as hard; he would have found an easier way to get the PT he wanted. Like Cliff Rozier.

So, sure, transferring when development is blocked is not a problem. Using that as an excuse for not working benefits nobody.
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Blaming the players, on a mass scale, only works if you think that the vast majority of D1 players aren't working as hard on their own development as D1 players did 10-40 years ago.

That seems a "things were better in the good ol' days" take on the situation with no real basis in reality.

You can question how well player development works in the modern era of college basketball. You can question how well team goals and player goals align in the modern era. But is seems quite the assumption - without any evidence provided - to believe that players, with all of the resources available to them, are systematically not working as hard as players did in the past.
 
TarSpiel said:
Justin Jackson's solution to this, and it was simple and would be incredibly effective, is to limit the number of transfers a player can make without penalty. I have no clue what the legal issues are here, but it would make a ton of these players think twice about transferring every year.
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Eventually they will be under contract.
 
UNCatTech said:
Eventually they will be under contract.
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Yeah, eventually there's going to have to be a recognition of players as employees and, with that, collective bargaining.

I'm guessing we're still at least 5 years and a dozen more court cases from that, though.
 
SnoopRob said:
Blaming the players, on a mass scale, only works if you think that the vast majority of D1 players aren't working as hard on their own development as D1 players did 10-40 years ago.

That seems a "things were better in the good ol' days" take on the situation with no real basis in reality.

You can question how well player development works in the modern era of college basketball. You can question how well team goals and player goals align in the modern era. But is seems quite the assumption - without any evidence provided - to believe that players, with all of the resources available to them, are systematically not working as hard as players did in the past.
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It’s a different time. The players have control now. I’d bet today’s players are working just as hard on themselves and spending more time on the game but they have an easy out now.

The need to show grit and commitment isn’t there. The time to grow and overcome hardship is optional now. Self reflection is tough especially when it’s not required.

It’s just what it is. It’s happening at every school.
 
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Bigs23 said:
It’s a different time. The players have control now.
That’s not necessarily bad it’s just what it is.
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What does that have to do with the idea that players aren't working as hard at their development as players did 10+ years ago?
 
Bigs23 said:
It’s a different time. The players have control now.
That’s not necessarily bad it’s just what it is.
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Yup.

I would really not want to be a coach in this day and age. No real chance to develop meaningful relationships with the players (at least compared to the Roy era), knowing that agents are in your players ears 24/7 with insinuations about development, playing time, and money, and wondering how hard you can discipline or criticize a player ("developing them") before they just walk out the door.

I just really wonder how long Coach Davis will want to exist in this environment. It just seems so stacked against his values and gifts as a person and as a mentor.
 
TarSpiel said:
Yup.

I would really not want to be a coach in this day and age. No real chance to develop meaningful relationships with the players (at least compared to the Roy era), knowing that agents are in your players ears 24/7 with insinuations about development, playing time, and money, and wondering how hard you can discipline or criticize a player ("developing them") before they just walk out the door.

I just really wonder how long Coach Davis will want to exist in this environment. It just seems so stacked against his values and gifts as a person and as a mentor.
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I agree. He’s all about committing to the greater good, relationships, and experiences. Today’s elite CBB, don’t generally rate those things at the top and neither would players of the past had they been afforded the same options.
 
SnoopRob said:
Yeah, eventually there's going to have to be a recognition of players as employees and, with that, collective bargaining.

I'm guessing we're still at least 5 years and a dozen more court cases from that, though.
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Wonder how viewership might be impacted if it takes that long.
 
TarSpiel said:
I didn't see where anybody said that
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It's directly in the post that bigs quoted, although it is not my actual thoughts but a necessary condition of an argument that super was suggesting.

Also, I would still be interested in the questions I asked you above, if you'd like to share further thoughts.
 
UNCatTech said:
Eventually they will be under contract.
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SnoopRob said:
Yeah, eventually there's going to have to be a recognition of players as employees and, with that, collective bargaining.

I'm guessing we're still at least 5 years and a dozen more court cases from that, though.
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I hope it comes sooner than later. The way the players are allowed to transfer every year without any penalty is killing things and making it harder for fans to enjoy the college game. One thing that was always special about Carolina is it always felt like a family, and the guys that used to play coming back to play against the current players in the summer. That's going to go away if half the team is transferring after every season.
 
SnoopRob said:
What does that have to do with the idea that players aren't working as hard at their development as players did 10+ years ago?
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I wouldn't say that. I do think that you could make the case that the early emphasis on travel teams at early ages has done a lot to increase interest and knowledge of the game.

That said, I do think that there's less room for the development of the old school gymrat player. There's not quite the same spaces for those players to develop. When there is much of the best competition is traveling.

I'm sure no expert but I don't know if you get the same degree of toughness.
 
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