Housing Issues (f/k/a Harris Economic Agenda Speech)

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It’s time for some serious government action.

Home owners are too scared of their property values.

How many apartments could be built for a single f35?
 
We are stuck in this States right thing . Some of it makes sense. Day Care and housing in San Fransico versus weinerville Alabama . New National initiatives should I guess be say 10-20% State paid. If some States won't participate-fine Kind of like Medicaid expansion in NC. I mean we gave up maybe 20 billion in Federal money to save 2 billion in State money. Finally we understood DUH
 
haroldminer said:
It’s time for some serious government action.

Home owners are too scared of their property values.

How many apartments could be built for a single f35?
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haroldminer just wanted to thank you for pointing out my racist religious comments about Sharia Law as it was indeed insensitive. Often I think I have mistaken offensive comments as humor without any ill intent. That said in the current climate and your apparent high level real estate knowledge as to wealth building I'm still wondering why'd you say that you don't know what Heirs Property issues are...but thanks again for pointing out my racist comments and I will try to be better.

www.nlc.org

Heirs’ Property and Its Effects on Black Land Ownership in Cities

By Houston City Councilmember Tiffany D. Thomas Black Americans have a complicated relationship with land ownership, pointing back to Special Order No. 15, issued January 16, 1865…
www.nlc.org

inequality.org

Black Land Theft and the Racial Wealth Divide - Inequality.org

inequality.org inequality.org
As we are entering hopefully a new and more equity able world I feel like we can all learn stuff!
 
SmilingJack said:
haroldminer just wanted to thank you for pointing out my racist religious comments about Sharia Law as it was indeed insensitive. Often I think I have mistaken offensive comments as humor without any ill intent. That said in the current climate and your apparent high level real estate knowledge as to wealth building I'm still wondering why'd you say that you don't know what Heirs Property issues are...but thanks again for pointing out my racist comments and I will try to be better.

www.nlc.org

Heirs’ Property and Its Effects on Black Land Ownership in Cities

By Houston City Councilmember Tiffany D. Thomas Black Americans have a complicated relationship with land ownership, pointing back to Special Order No. 15, issued January 16, 1865…
www.nlc.org

inequality.org

Black Land Theft and the Racial Wealth Divide - Inequality.org

inequality.org inequality.org
As we are entering hopefully a new and more equity able world I feel like we can all learn stuff!
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You’re welcome.
 
BlueSmoke said:
As a 30 year builder, and having faced several mortgage interest rate and recession cycles.............not sure this will fix entry level housing. Builders will naturally gravitate to building the most profitable, least trouble type housing. Current economics favor the slightly larger empty Nestor home. Single story if your lot can accommodate. You are going to the same amount of trouble building that home as you would the smaller starter home.

Local issues with land availability makes starter home building not feasible. Local governments don't assist in running water/sewer anywhere near the development in most parts of the country. So if the developer wants it, he usually has to incur the cost of running those utilities from wherever they are, to his location.

Therefore, if federal government could provide carrots for running the utilities that can be accessed by more potential developments and condition the carrots to starter home developments then that would be much, much more effective. It would open a flood gate I bet.
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Excellent points.

I’ll add that most upper middle class communities that could afford to subsidize low-income developments don’t want those developments. Those developments bring young families and that means schools - which are expensive as hell.

Thirty or forty years ago, Chapel Hill taxpayers might have supported low income housing developments…..but, Chapel Hill was growing so fast and so many high earners wanted to move to Chapel Hill that the New Oaks (north of The Oaks and south of Ephesus Church Road), Meadowmont, and the McMansion developments along Weaver Dairy Road were built.

The 1987 Chapel Hill town elections revolved around development - urban development (what’s been happening in Chapel Hill/Carrboro the last 15+ years) was a big no-no and restricting rural developments to 10 acre lots was a big yes-yes.

Developers lobbied the town council and county commissioners and those entities caved and affordable housing wasn’t happening.

It’s one thing to allow developments of 5,000-10,000 square foot houses on McMansion-tiny lots that have 2 adults, 2.2 children, and 2.7 pets. That house is more than paying for its kids’ school costs (and many in those houses are sending their kids to Durham Academy or another private school). Those developments are a net gain to the town and county coffers.

It’s another thing to have 500+ 1,200 square foot homes built on 0.10 acres and filled with young families…..think of a modern Levittown…..even “Liberal” Chapel Hill and Carrboro doesn’t want a modern Levittown within its city limits. Such a neighborhood is EXPENSIVE (massive sewage, water, and natural gas infrastructure) and it brings a shitload of children - even more expensive. Long-term, on-going expensive……then the no-longer young family sells and a new young family moves into that little starter home…..repeating the nasty expense involved with children.

Chapel Hill and Carrboro are “liberal” as hell until it comes to their homes, neighborhoods, and ranking of the schools.

There on Weaver Dairy Road and along what I still call Airport Road (officially, Martin Luther King Boulevard) and on Homestead Road, Seawell Road, and Estes Drive Extension Chapel Hill and Carrboro had ample opportunity to build a crapload of 1,200 square foot homes on 0.10 acres…….no interest in doing so.

Well-off Americans have ZERO interest in helping affordable housing built in their neighborhoods/towns.
 
Enigma94 said:
Another part of the calculation is that when you buy and get a 30 year mortgage the payment is fixed. So due to inflation the payment is much lower in real dollars over time. Rent is the exact opposite, your payment will almost certainly go up every year.
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Agreed to a point. I sure don't see the cost of home owners insurance as fixed. Property taxes part of your rent going up? Oh, home owners too! Do you use lawn/landscaping service? Bet their prices have risen as well. On and on.
 
haroldminer said:
Because building exclusively single family homes in the burbs is how we ended up in a housing shortage.
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I disagree. From what I've read we fell significantly behind in building during the housing crisis, when we basically didn't build for a couple years. Building was also down during covid. From what I've read the supply was keeping up prior to the housing crisis.

Also, look at what is happening with the high rise condos in Florida. I would much prefer to be responsible for my own home.

Now if I choose to live in NYC, the variables would make for a different decision.

Another thing that seems to be neglected in this conversation is rising rent.

My BIL is paying more in rent for an 750 sq ft apartment in an Atlanta than my daughter pays for her mortgages on her 1000 sq ft home.
There are small town homes in my area renting for $2500 a month. Homes in my neighborhood are renting for $3500. This conversation seems to imply that renting is far cheaper than a mortgage. That has never been my experience.

Again, I'm not against renting.

I believe there need to be multiple options so that we have adequate housing for everyone.
Everyone doesn't have the same needs or the same desires for housing.
 
haroldminer said:
Our study found that long-term renting is cheaper than homeownership in 46 out of 97 cities, which is likely due to rising interest rates, soaring home prices, and high down payments. California cities occupy seven of the top 10 spots on the list of places where renting is more affordable than buying. A renter in Irvine, California, for example, will save almost $1.3 million over 30 years by renting their home instead of buying.
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In that example was considered that if the were in the house for 30 years and it is now paid off and they have an asset while the renter is still paying rent?
 
grimes70 said:
Yes they are paying in the cost of the rent. But you can be paying $1,500 in rent vs $2,500 mortgage which does not include all those costly things. Invest that 1K/mo in an index fund. Or half and take a nice vacation each year. Who comes out ahead 20 yrs later? Damn, thought there'd be no math here.

Not anti home ownership. Just showing the other side.
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I don't believe these numbers are accurate in our current environment. For an equal space I don't believe the rent is drastically less.

I pay $3000 a month mortgage. My neighbor in an equivalent home is paying $3500 rent.

Yes, my BIL rent is half my mortgage, but its not an equivalent home. Though it does meet his needs, so an example of needing variety.

I'm for what each individual needs. We have to have options, homes, apartment, condos, rent purchase, we need all of these options.

An aside on you example of investing the difference. What percentage of people do you believe could and would do that?
 
UNCatTech said:
I can see that, I just hope there are impact taxes to make sure that the area can handle the number of cars and people.

There is a neighborhood going in near us that has apartments, houses, townhomes, and retail. The apartments are very dense. The overall project looks good, but the roads need to be improved around it. Until they improve the roads, I suspect that it will be a nightmare getting in and out in the morning.
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The secret is getting people out of their cars. Commercial enterprises included within walkable distances of dense development and mass transit to move a lot of people point to point.
 
SmilingJack said:
haroldminer I am still wondering if you have any opinions on "Heirs Property" ripping off folks with land but no representation yet you push rental and asked why I used a racist comment. I genuinely want to know why you didn't explain my racist comments to me? Seriously man I'm willing to change how bout you and your buddy Calheel?
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Is Heirs the thing I was reading about in Hawaii?

Where Zuckerberg is building his bunker and trying to pay minimum for land?
 
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