How Non MAGA Conservatives View Trump

CFordUNC said:


I’ll never forget the people who let one raging madman rewrite their entire personality and value system. Watching folks abandon everything they once claimed to believe just to fall in line and excuse the most heinous behavior will be studied for years by psychologists and historians alike.

Donald Trump isn’t just a politician. He’s an infection in the bloodstream of America, and the damage to our national soul is catastrophic.
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And like I posted earlier, the rest of us aren’t going make a distinction between the self-proclaimed “non-MAGA Trump voter” and MAGA.
 
Ramrouser said:
What if a J6er brought a pistol (with extra ammo) to the Capital; resisted arrest; and was killed in the process? Would you be upset? I know the answer since no one minded the “extrajudicial summary execution” of unarmed Ashli Babbitt.
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Some J6er wandering around the rotunda on his own with a pistol in his pants and five officers kneeling on him after pepper spraying him? Yes, I'd be upset if they were shot and killed. Carrying a firearm into the capitol is a crime but not one punishable by death.

The difference with Ashli Babbitt, as I'm sure you know, is that she was the first of dozens of J6ers breaking into to the Speaker's lobby. She and the group behind her severely outnumbered the law enforcement between the group and lawmakers sheltering. They were threatening the safety of everyone on the other side of the partition, they saw guns drawn, and they were given verbal warnings before a gun was fired.

Alex Pretti threatened no one's safety.
 
To Zoo,

I am aware of all of that. The point was those folks were given credit for “assimilating” over generations despite their clear culture distinctions and interethnic hostilities. But suddenly this country has an apparent problem with assimilation.
 
lawtig02 said:
Yes. The difference between Calla and the rest of us here is that we see Trump as an existential threat to our lives and liberties and he does not. The difference between Ram and the rest of us here is that he gets excited about the thought of liberals in concentration camps. Or body bags.
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This is just my opinion, but I am interested in engaging with Calla to try to understand why he does not see Trump as an existential threat to our national security and civil liberties. I also want to understand why he believes Trump's economic policies are not harmful to working class and middle class families.

I have hope that Calla is able to get beyond "what about Biden " arguments to excuse support for Trump and actually make a compelling case for his support of Trump notwithstanding Trump's corruption, his crude boorish demeanor, and his cognitive decline.

With regard to Ram, pandemic blue , and a few other drive by MAGA posters I am less interested in engaging with them, but I appreciate their contribution to keeping me informed about what what is oozing in the right wing fever swamp.

If we have no thoughtful conservatives with which to engage in a discussion of the issues, then this board becomes solely a political news message board.

For now Calla is our best hope, but I would like to attract more conservatives to the board with the full recognition that we have some very fine conservative posters here who agree that Trump poses a clear and present danger to the future of America.

and yes I understand why some will think I'm naive but hope springs eternal...
 
BlooVooDoo said:
That used to be everybody.
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I'm not sure there was ever a time that gays ,poor people, POCs, women and political outcasts weren't more expendable but we put a better face on how we did it. We even showed some signs of practicing what we preached. Then this happened Lost it all to the Republican Party selling their birthright to a spoiled senile old man for a mess of his dirty diapers.
 
Ramrouser said:
What if a J6er brought a pistol (with extra ammo) to the Capital; resisted arrest; and was killed in the process? Would you be upset? I know the answer since no one minded the “extrajudicial summary execution” of unarmed Ashli Babbitt.
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Babbit was repeatly warned to not enter and to stop. Multiple times. She was breaking the law and backed up by a violent mob. Neither of the two murdered souls in MN were breaking the law or ignoring orders. And you know it. They were murdered. Babbit was not.
 
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Kingpin said:
Babbit was repeatly warned to not enter and to stop. Multiple times. She was breaking the law and backed up by a violent mob. Neither of the two murdered souls in MN were breaking the law or ignoring orders. And you know it. They were murdered. Babbit was not.
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Exactly. Unless Ram thinks liberals no longer have the right to stand on America’s streets without being executed by Trump’s Stasi.
 
lawtig02 said:
Exactly. Unless Ram thinks liberals no longer have the right to stand on America’s streets without being executed by Trump’s Stasi.
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I think that’s essentially where they are. If you’re protesting against anything related to the Trump administration, you assume the risk of being assaulted or killed and therefore it’s justified.
 
This morning’s performances on the Sunday morning shows have completely eviscerated the article in the OP. Today’s conservatives will JCD literally anything. And if you’re not ok with that, you need to abandon the GOP, because the party is gone.
 
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Kingpin said:
Babbit was repeatly warned to not enter and to stop. Multiple times. She was breaking the law and backed up by a violent mob. Neither of the two murdered souls in MN were breaking the law or ignoring orders. And you know it. They were murdered. Babbit was not.
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I agree

Babbitt was leading a mob group to get past Capitol Police security and enter the Speaker's lobby presumably to reach and attack members of Congress.
 
Kingpin said:
Babbit was repeatly warned to not enter and to stop. Multiple times. She was breaking the law and backed up by a violent mob. Neither of the two murdered souls in MN were breaking the law or ignoring orders. And you know it. They were murdered. Babbit was not.
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Good was told to get out of the car. She ignored the officers and instead chose to listen to her partner who told her to “drive baby drive.”

I’m consistent in that I believe both shootings (Babbitt and Good) were legally justified but could have been avoided had the officers shown more discretion. Both women unnecessarily put themselves in dangerous situations resulting in their tragic deaths.
 
Zoo_View said:
There’s no distinction to make.

They’re the same voters.
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100%.

There is no non-MAGA republican left. There can't be as Trump has wholly subsumed the party.

And nothing in Trump's behavior aligns with "conservative" principles, so claiming you are "conservative" and supprt Trump really only means you believed in the racist dog whistles that Republicans have utilized over the past 4 or 5 decades to whip up their base
 
Ramrouser said:
Good was told to get out of the car. She ignored the officers and instead chose to listen to her partner who told her to “drive baby drive.”

I’m consistent in that I believe both shootings (Babbitt and Good) were legally justified but could have been avoided had the officers shown more discretion. Both women unnecessarily put themselves in dangerous situations resulting in their tragic deaths.
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You are consistent in a good many things, that's for certain.
 
Ramrouser said:
His policies caused the inflation. Biden was warned not to overspend by passing all those trillion dollar bills bloated with green and DEI pork.
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Holy crap - Biden caused COVID and the resulting supply chain disruptions that caused inflation all over the world? That sounds like a major story.
 
Callatoroy said:
So you see no need at all for assimilation? Just pockets of different ethnicities / races / nationalities all living in their own groups?
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We don’t need TOTAL assimilation. Do you think that people that grow up in Chinatown in NY or SF don’t become assimilated into American culture? That people who grow up in Dominican or Puerto Rican neighborhoods in NYC aren’t assimilated? Or Cuban neighborhoods in Miami?

American culture has always been adept at absorbing aspects of other cultures when they migrate here, and simply blending them into American culture so that the people who come here both become proud Americans and retain pride in their own cultural heritage. It’s not an either/or thing the way ghouls like Stephen Miller frame it. In fact it’s been a major factor in American cultural dominance.
 
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