Hubert Davis Catch-all - HUBERT OFFICIALLY OUT

[superrific]

Regarding point 1: from reading IC, it seems Hubert did not know he was going to be fired.

He might have not known formally, but come on -- he knew the same way everyone here knew. The way that loss went down made it impossible for him to stay. He must have known that, even if it wasn't consciously spelled out.

 

[CFordUNC]

You really think anyone wouldn't take Bennett's 5-year run ending in 2019? I mean I could do without the blowout loss to a 16 seed, but other than that, yeah, seems like an easy decision. Bennett's style did seem to make his teams susceptible to March upsets, but I don't have that concern about TJO.

Put it this way, I think if UNC's next coach goes 1 seed/Sweet 16 loss (2014 Virginia), 2 seed/Second Round loss (2015 Virginia), 1 seed/Elite 8 epic collapse (2016 Virginia), 5 seed/Second Round blowout loss (2017 Virginia), 1 seed/early NCAAT flameout (2018 Virginia), I don't feel confident that he'd even make it to get a chance to do 1 seed/national champion (2019 Virginia).

 

[4thgenheel]

I tried and then they came to pile on the guy.

(it isn't piling on to point out that going dark for any amount of time after the VCU loss was not good. that is just self evident)

 

[duluoz]

i upvoted super's post that you quoted because i agree with the sentiment but what exactly are we going to "find out the hard way?"

the harrison barnes recruitment was 15 years ago. if nothing else, the simple passage of father time is eliminating some of these connections and other special things.

IMO we’re going to find out that what many are dismissing as well worth the risk to cut HD, and fairly easily maintain or regain a connection to the tradition and legacy with a total outsider, *while also* putting up seasons well ahead of HD’s results… we’re going to find out the hard way that it is a needle that won’t likely be threaded — from the side of clearly better results, or the side of upholding the legacy in meaningful ways, or neither.

 

[CFordUNC]

I don't understand the Tony Bennett comparison. Bennett played boring, low scoring basketball at UVa. Iowa State averaged 82.5 PPG (rank #31....UNC ranked #73 at 79.7 PPG). They play a balanced offense and put up a lot of 3s. They beat Kentucky last weekend without their best player Joshua Jefferson. who sprained an ankle in round 1. The game was even at halftime, they came out in the second half pressing and creating turnovers (a coaching adjustment) and won going away by 19. They played good defense and the players appeared to know what they were doing offensively. Not a lot of standing around dribbling, they appeared to know what to do with the ball when they had it.

ISU plays our old friend Rick Barnes this Friday night at 10. Tennessee is playing well right now so it should be a good test, depending on Jefferson's ankle. Reports are guardedly optimistic he can play this weekend.

I meant more so comparing resume quality versus actual playing style. You're right that their respective styles of play are different.

 

[farce©]

TJO is my first choice for the position.

I do have a few concerns if he's up to the limelight of a blue blood program. Based on my (limited) observations of him, I think he is, but it's certainly a pertinent question. I also worry a little about the slower pace his teams tend to play at, but that's just me being biased toward uptempo systems.

Iowa State averaged 82.5 PPG (rank #31....UNC ranked #73 at 79.7 PPG). BTW, dook ranked #34 at 81.9 PPG.

I don't think they play a "slower pace."

 

[4thgenheel]

Put it this way, I think if UNC's next coach goes 1 seed/Sweet 16 loss (2014 Virginia), 2 seed/Second Round loss (2015 Virginia), 1 seed/Elite 8 epic collapse (2016 Virginia), 5 seed/Second Round blowout loss (2017 Virginia), 1 seed/early NCAAT flameout (2018 Virginia), I don't feel confident that he'd even make it to get a chance to do 1 seed/national champion (2019 Virginia).

i disagree. despite the tourney flameouts they were unbelievably good during the regular season and i think that would grant more patience in this hypothetical scenario.

 

[rodoheel]

Ideally, we would get a coach who can do more with more.

Sure but you generally never really know what a coach can do with more until you actually give him more.

 

[SnoopRob]

Assuming this isn't Mushmouth Goodman making this up, what an incredibly cunty thing for another ACC coach to say. Sure, the sentiment is accurate that if you're competing against UNC you'd probably rather it be against Hubert Davis than say, Dusty May, but still a really shitty thing to say about a former coaching fraternity colleague.

Also, unless that coach quoted is Jon Scheyer- which it isn't- then that coach can STFU because he didn't have a Final Four, an ACC title, and a 1 seed at any point in the last 5 years like Hubert Davis did.

Eh, if you're an ACC basketball coach and both Carolina and dook are doing well, that makes your job really, really tough.

You're at a resource disadvantage against both schools and, if they have good coaching, you're pretty regularly playing for 3rd place in the conference in your best years. Both being elite really reduces the chances that you win a regular season or tournament championship. Both being elite means 2-3 likely losses before you even consider 15-16 other conference games on your schedule.

I can see why other coaches would be glad for Carolina (or dook or both) to have a coach they feel doesn't help Carolina (or dook) be an elite team more often than not.

 

[rodoheel]

Iowa State averaged 82.5 PPG (rank #31....UNC ranked #73 at 79.7 PPG). BTW, dook ranked #34 at 81.9 PPG.

I don't think they play a "slower pace."

TJO's ISU teams have ranked 204th, 109th, 201st, 328th, and 226th in adjusted tempo in the last five years. It doesn't really concern me at all, personally, but he does tend to play at a slower pace.

 

[farce©]

Eh, if you're an ACC basketball coach and both Carolina and dook are doing well, that makes your job really, really tough.

You're at a resource disadvantage against both schools and, if they have good coaching, you're pretty regularly playing for 3rd place in the conference in your best years. Both being elite really reduces the chances that you win a regular season or tournament championship. Both being elite means 2-3 likely losses before you even consider 15-16 other conference games on your schedule.

I can see why other coaches would be glad for Carolina (or dook or both) to have a coach they feel doesn't help Carolina (or dook) be an elite team more often than not.

But I don't think I'd say it out loud, even anonymously, to a reporter.

 

[CFordUNC]

i disagree. despite the tourney flameouts they were unbelievably good during the regular season and i think that would grant more patience in this hypothetical scenario.

Oh yeah, totally agree. They were an absolute wagon on the regular season during that run- definitely the best program in the ACC during that duration.

 

[rodoheel]

He might have not known formally, but come on -- he knew the same way everyone here knew. The way that loss went down made it impossible for him to stay. He must have known that, even if it wasn't consciously spelled out.

I think you are underestimating the extent to which the extremely not-online Hubert was potentially oblivious to the wider feelings about him and his job security among fans/donors.

 

[farce©]

TJO's ISU teams have ranked 204th, 109th, 201st, 328th, and 226th in adjusted tempo in the last five years. It doesn't really concern me at all, personally, but he does tend to play at a slower pace.

Then they are damn efficient if their adjusted tempo is that low and they rank 31st in scoring. (and I have no clue what "adjusted tempo" means)

 

[CFordUNC]

BTW I was already totally sold on being happy if TJO is our next coach but now y'all got me ready to run through a damn wall if he is. Make it happen!

 

[stankeylegjones]

I still can't understand why Bubba, after enough donors had informed that they would not be willing to support a decent roster with HD in charge, would ask HD what kind of changes he would bring in to uplift the program. Bubba knew he was going to be let go. Why even do that? I can totally see how it lead to HD's confusion.

 

[SnoopRob]

Iowa State averaged 82.5 PPG (rank #31....UNC ranked #73 at 79.7 PPG). BTW, dook ranked #34 at 81.9 PPG.

I don't think they play a "slower pace."

Here's his KenPom coach's page. Other than a couple of years early on at McNeese State, he's largely been in the lower half of tempo across CBB...

 

[SnoopRob]

Sure but you generally never really know what a coach can do with more until you actually give him more.

 

[thebruinbleedstarheelblue]

I still don't get the deal about the press conference. What did he lie about? Is it the fact that he wasn't willing to let everybody in on how badly they felt about a season and , for Hubert, a career ending loss. He was supposed to wallow in the pain on TV for everyone's amusement?

No, he can just be a standup professional.
Press is part of the job, win or lose...its not like this was TMZ catching him walking down the street.

"Because I said so" and being all bitter for some questions(I think they threw him softballs) it's just not the way you want a leader to approach things public... but his first press conference was weak too.

People talk like the head coaching job is only X's and O's, they are running a program and in this case a top American brand.

Unless he's gonna be absolutely crushing it he's gotta do better

 

[SnoopRob]

I still can't understand why Bubba, after enough donors had informed that they would not be willing to support a decent roster with HD in charge, would ask HD what kind of changes he would bring in to uplift the program. Bubba knew he was going to be let go. Why even do that? I can totally see how it lead to HD's confusion.

Maybe I've missed it, but do we know that's how it went down?

My reading of what's been said is a bit different, but I might have misread it.