Hubert Davis Catch-all

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Willy said:
For those who consider dook a measuring stick - there are probably only 2-3 coaches that can realistically get us to that level. If we are relatively certain - through back door channels - that none are realistic options, what do you do?
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No one knows which coaches can get us to that level. You have to take a risk when you hire a new coach. But I never thought I'd see the day when so many UNC fans seem to be OK with not even trying to be on Duke's level. The rivalry has always ebbed and flowed, but at no point in the last 35-40 years has either program simply accepted that the other would be better and that's OK.

As someone else said, while Duke is certainly rolling in the talent, they did that from 2010-2020 too, and we still went toe to toe with them during most of that time, even exceeding them at times. Are people seriously thinking we should just accept second-tier status?
 
superrific said:
It is objectively irrational to be making decisions about UNC based on what Duke is doing. Are you saying that if Duke was mediocre it would be OK for us to be mediocre? That if Duke is on top of the world we should burn through every coach possible to match them?

UNC needs to do what will maximize the success of UNC. Duke has nothing to do with it, unless there is some specific interaction effect that might be inhibiting.
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We want to be an elite program. Duke is currently an elite program. Sub in Arizona or Florida or UConn or Houston whoever you want for Duke. The bottom line is, we want to be on the level of the elite programs. We currently aren't. We need to be trying to get there.
 
rodoheel said:
We want to be an elite program. Duke is currently an elite program. Sub in Arizona or Florida or UConn or Houston whoever you want for Duke. The bottom line is, we want to be on the level of the elite programs. We currently aren't. We need to be trying to get there.
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Those 5 have definitely been more consistent the last couple of years.
 
superrific said:
It is objectively irrational to be making decisions about UNC based on what Duke is doing. Are you saying that if Duke was mediocre it would be OK for us to be mediocre? That if Duke is on top of the world we should burn through every coach possible to match them?

UNC needs to do what will maximize the success of UNC. Duke has nothing to do with it, unless there is some specific interaction effect that might be inhibiting.
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Very little of sports fandom is rational. If you don’t think Duke’s success the last two years has significantly impacted the Hubert analysis, I don’t know what to say.

It is clearly a big part of the fan unrest.
 
rodoheel said:
No one knows which coaches can get us to that level. You have to take a risk when you hire a new coach. But I never thought I'd see the day when so many UNC fans seem to be OK with not even trying to be on Duke's level. The rivalry has always ebbed and flowed, but at no point in the last 35-40 years has either program simply accepted that the other would be better and that's OK.

As someone else said, while Duke is certainly rolling in the talent, they did that from 2010-2020 too, and we still went toe to toe with them during most of that time, even exceeding them at times. Are people seriously thinking we should just accept second-tier status?
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this.

i'm not sure how this discussion got so convoluted but we don't have to match dook's insane recruiting to be comparatively or even more successful on the court.

see what Roy did from @ 2011-2012 to 2019.
 
Saw this quote from Adam Lucas posted on IC (from their pod):

“I don’t think the story of the season is that Carolina was dropped to a 6 seed without Caleb Wilson. The story of this season is WITH Caleb Wilson, Carolina was in line for a 4 or 5 seed. That’s…a month from now what this year is going to be. And that’s for a discussion once the season is over (which is hopefully in April).”
And this quote from Jones Angell:

“And if that game lasts another 45 seconds, Carolina probably wins it. And yet, that sort of defines the frustration: like, why were you down 15 points with 3 minutes to go? Why were you down 18 at one point?”
 
The comparison with Duke comes naturally. Our biggest rival in close proximity who had a similar starting position a few years ago. A former player, rookie head coach taking over for a legend. Scheyer has done a better job than Hubert.

I agree that if Duke had struggled these past years, it would have been little consolation to the Carolina fanbase.
 
rodoheel said:
We want to be an elite program. Duke is currently an elite program. Sub in Arizona or Florida or UConn or Houston whoever you want for Duke. The bottom line is, we want to be on the level of the elite programs. We currently aren't. We need to be trying to get there.
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I suspect there is an ongoing effort to get there.

Raising the NIL budget was step 1.
Hiring a GM was step 2 along with talent evaluation.

Those have been in place for one season. Things improved then Caleb got shelved.

Step 3 and the hardest step is the coaching staff.

That's the next piece to the puzzle. Hubert has a season to see if the current group is the piece that fits. Without 1 and 2 in place it's harder to evaluate.

Given who he is, his legacy and the turmoil in CBB I believe keeping him has been the right course but I also think with those pieces in place it's now or never time.
 
stankeylegjones said:
Saw this quote from Adam Lucas posted on IC (from their pod):

“I don’t think the story of the season is that Carolina was dropped to a 6 seed without Caleb Wilson. The story of this season is WITH Caleb Wilson, Carolina was in line for a 4 or 5 seed. That’s…a month from now what this year is going to be. And that’s for a discussion once the season is over (which is hopefully in April).”
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If Lucas is publicly making this (correct) observation, then the internal frustration has to be a lot higher than it seems like people think, IMO
 
Calheel said:
Very little of sports fandom is rational. If you don’t think Duke’s success the last two years has significantly impacted the Hubert analysis, I don’t know what to say.

It is clearly a big part of the fan unrest.
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It can be part of the unrest, sure. But making decisions because our rivals are doing well is an NCSU thing. Is that who we want to be?
 
Calheel said:
It is a pretty universal thing. State does not have exclusive ownership of fan unrest.
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Like I said, I get the unrest. It amplifies the issue.

But it crosses the line to make a decision with the express intent of keeping up with our rivals. That sort of thing usually ends up in stupid decisions.

The question should be this, and only this: is UNC Basketball better off with Hubert Davis coaching the team, or some other person yet to be identified. I don't know the answer. But I do know that Duke has nothing to do with it.

Let's say Duke face plants next year, and ends up with a losing record. UNC, under HD, basically repeats the same season we are having this year. Should that be OK because Duke is sucking?
 
rodoheel said:
We want to be an elite program. Duke is currently an elite program. Sub in Arizona or Florida or UConn or Houston whoever you want for Duke. The bottom line is, we want to be on the level of the elite programs. We currently aren't. We need to be trying to get the
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So by the new standard I guess you would agree that kintuckee, UCLA, and Kansas are no longer elite programs and sinking fast based upon the last 4 years.

This raises an interesting question. Perhaps the blueblood era is soon to be over with the almighty dook** the only remining blueblood ?

Is it too early to say we need to rename the elite group replacing the bluebloods ?
 
superrific said:
Like I said, I get the unrest. It amplifies the issue.

But it crosses the line to make a decision with the express intent of keeping up with our rivals. That sort of thing usually ends up in stupid decisions.

The question should be this, and only this: is UNC Basketball better off with Hubert Davis coaching the team, or some other person yet to be identified. I don't know the answer. But I do know that Duke has nothing to do with it.

Let's say Duke face plants next year, and ends up with a losing record. UNC, under HD, basically repeats the same season we are having this year. Should that be OK because Duke is sucking?
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I don't think UNC will make a change solely because Duke is doing well, but it is certainly a factor.

To put it in legal terms, Duke doing well would not be the proximate cause or substantial factor for making a change, but it would be part of the causal chain.
 
Bigs23 said:
Including the ACCT definitely skews things. Not sure those results are important.

dook is on an almost unprecedented roll (UCLA days?) with take talent acquisition. It's probably not the best measuring stick right now.
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I think the post seasons, both the ACC and NCAA are important. It bothers me that we are UNC and haven't won an ACC championship in over a decade. To me what skews things are the increasing misses on talent and the puzzling team focus/lack of focus. Both have a lot to do with the coach. I wish it weren't that way.
 
Batt Boy said:
I think the post seasons, both the ACC and NCAA are important. It bothers me that we are UNC and haven't won an ACC championship in over a decade. To me what skews things are the increasing misses on talent and the puzzling team focus/lack of focus. Both have a lot to do with the coach. I wish it weren't that way.
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I'd like to get rid of the ACCT (and it may happen soon, as conferences look to be doing away with football champ games). Other than for NCSU runs, the ACCT is counterproductive to team goals. Just make the regular season two games longer and let us play State 2x a year and all the other teams once (and a random one twice).

Of the many concerns I have with Hubert, the ACCT is the least of them. And I think it conflates the analysis to treat all post-regular season category in the same bucket. NCAAT winning percentage is what matters.
 
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