Hubert Davis Catch-all

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superrific said:
1. I'm pretty sure you're exaggerating Bigs' posts
2. Is it bad to change one's mind with the presentation of new facts?

I've been on the fence about HD and haven't wanted to stake out a position because I don't know very much. But I can now see that HD won't survive this. So it's best to cut ties immediately. Even if it wasn't HD's fault, even if the critics are wrong -- it doesn't matter because the narrative is completely set. The concrete is dry and there is nothing more to be written in the minds of the fan base. He will not have the support of enough of the fans to be successful.

I don't think I'm being hypocritical or full of shit. I think I'm trying to assess the situation to the best of my ability.
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Definitely exaggerating, which is what he does. He's a prickly SOB.

I've never said Hubert was great. Have said it was difficult to justify firing him up to now. Well now is here and it seems like the fates have collided against Hubert.

Between the freak injury to Caleb which ended hopes of a great season and last night's debacle conditions now seem to be in a place where not bringing him back is a lot more palatable.
 
When I started this thread after the west coast debacle, I was sure Hubert Davis was done as UNC's coach. Then the dook game happened. Then the injuries happened. Then we weathered some injury games very well. So, I concluded his job was safe.

After last night's historic letdown, his job, IMO, is once again not safe. Duh, right.

I think it is time to move on. Who should/could we get? I don't know. However, we know at this point what we have with Hubert Davis and, again IMO, it is not what we want. It is not being a consistently elite basketball program.

Under Davis we have been:

An 8 seed (second half of the season that team got it together and of course went on a truly epic late season run, one for the ages)
Missed the tournament
A 1 seed
An 11 seed
A 6 seed

With a healthy Wilson are we a higher seed? Absolutely. How high though? Seems like a 4 seed was our ceiling with Wilson.

I found this section from one of Greg Barnes' articles after last night's game particularly interesting and illuminating:
"Postgame press conferences are never easy after losses, especially season-ending defeats of the worst variety, such as this one, which will forever be known by a footnote describing a historic collapse, but these media availabilities also offer an opportunity to define the season’s end on your own terms. Roy Williams often spoke to feelings of inadequacy in season-ending press conferences for not being able to help his players accomplish something really difficult before taking accountability for his team’s performance in the loss.

That’s not Davis’ style. While a Dean Smith disciple, he’s never been one to shoulder the blame as his former coach often did in these types of settings. There’s nothing wrong with that, although given the gravity of the moment, it wouldn’t hurt. Because Davis did make mistakes in this Carolina loss."

It got me thinking about the Carolina Way and discussion we have had on this thread. Some seem to think that getting rid of Davis means the end of the Carolina Way. But doesn't keeping Davis mean certain aspects of the Carolina Way are over? Already, Davis has changed the Carolina Way from not accepting full blame for losses like last night.

Further, part of the Carolina Way is excellence on the court. It is being consistently elite, which we are not under Davis. So he's not continuing the Carolina Way there. Personally I think the values of Dean Smith exist beyond just UNC. Dean famously had coaching clinics during the off season that attracted coaches far and wide, many of whom with no connection to UNC other than their respect and admiration for what Dean Smith accomplished and how he accomplished it. An outside coach can continue those same values, off the court and on the court.

I know Roy's last couple of seasons were not up to the Carolina Way standards either. And what happened there? Roy retired. Hubert has not lived up to the Carolina Way on the court, so should he resign, be replaced? I think so.

No, I do not know who we can hire. I do not know what sure fire slam dunk hire we can make. I don't know if that hire exists. No, I do not fully have faith in the current university leadership. Their vision for the university does not appear to align with mine. The football hire has been a disaster.

However, I know what we have in Hubert Davis as a coach and that is not good enough IMO.
 
StrangePackage said:
Lloyd at Arizona has managed sustained success despite portal attrition and NIL shenanigans.

I hope we just keep writing zeros on his offer until he says yes.
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Lloyd, May and Otzelberger would be my top 3. I just think it would be harder for Lloyd and May to leave their current position than it would be for Otzelberger.
 
stankeylegjones said:
You have spent the past two years telling me and anyone who questioned a decision HD made, that we are not true fans, or simply labeling us as a "Hubert hater," "anti-Hubert," and so on. You said that as long as HD is the coach then you are going to support everything he does, as would any true fan. Fucking ad nauseam with your toxic positivity shit. Now, you're suggesting we look at replacements. Get the fuck outta here with your bullshit. You're either full of shit now, or then.
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People change positions.
 
Think my scenario may be proven right.

One big problem is that there's no good list of targets. And that Roy is dead set against.
 
CRHeel94 said:
Think my scenario may be proven right.

One big problem is that there's no good list of targets. And that Roy is dead set against.
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How do you know there's no good list of targets? I'm sure they have at least a high-level idea of who their first calls would be.

I hope Roy isn't dead-set against, but if he is that shouldn't deter us in the slightest. And I say that as someone who idolizes Roy. We let him drive the last coaching search, and even he must understand that it hasn't worked out. I hope he remains close to the program, but he shouldn't have a role in this coaching search.
 
GoHeelsweeeehoooo said:
Wed be insane to hire Wes Miller
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I'm not insane but I have been day drinking since 7am and wanted Wes Miller to replace Roy. I now find myself defending CHD, but if we are going to replace him then I still would like to replace him with a young experienced Wes Miller who has been through the wars guiding a low brand Cincy program through a conference transition and with little commitment to forking out millions to buy players.

He's 43yo with a 14 yo DI coaching experience at UNC-G and Cincy. Scheyer is 38yo and did not take over a declining program like CHD did.

I don't think we should fire CHD, but if we do then I say hire Wes and see what he can do in a name program backed up with millions upon millions of buy payments for players.
 
heelinhell said:
I'm not insane but I have been day drinking since 7am and wanted Wes Miller to replace Roy. I now find myself defending CHD, but if we are going to replace him then I still would like to replace him with a young experienced Wes Miller who has been through the wars guiding a low brand Cincy program through a conference transition and with little commitment to forking out millions to buy players.

He's 43yo with a 14 yo DI coaching experience at UNC-G and Cincy. Scheyer is 38yo and did not take over a declining program like CHD did.

I don't think we should fire CHD, but if we do then I say hire Wes and see what he can do in a name program backed up with millions upon millions of buy payments for players.
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I wanted to hire Wes in 2021. Hiring him now would be absolutely insane and anyone who suggested the idea to the people making the decision would almost certainly be laughed out of the room.
 
heelinhell said:
I'm not insane but I have been day drinking since 7am and wanted Wes Miller to replace Roy. I now find myself defending CHD, but if we are going to replace him then I still would like to replace him with a young experienced Wes Miller who has been through the wars guiding a low brand Cincy program through a conference transition and with little commitment to forking out millions to buy players.

He's 43yo with a 14 yo DI coaching experience at UNC-G and Cincy. Scheyer is 38yo and did not take over a declining program like CHD did.

I don't think we should fire CHD, but if we do then I say hire Wes and see what he can do in a name program backed up with millions upon millions of buy payments for players.
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I’d be shocked if UNC hires a coach Cincinnati just fired. That would be quite a turn of events.
 
heelinhell said:
I'm not insane but I have been day drinking since 7am and wanted Wes Miller to replace Roy. I now find myself defending CHD, but if we are going to replace him then I still would like to replace him with a young experienced Wes Miller who has been through the wars guiding a low brand Cincy program through a conference transition and with little commitment to forking out millions to buy players.

He's 43yo with a 14 yo DI coaching experience at UNC-G and Cincy. Scheyer is 38yo and did not take over a declining program like CHD did.

I don't think we should fire CHD, but if we do then I say hire Wes and see what he can do in a name program backed up with millions upon millions of buy payments for players.
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You See What GIF by EsZ Giphy World
 
If we decide to make a change, we better have a clear plan in place for the hiring process. We need to show candidates that they will have an elite level budget for players. We need to show that they will have all the resources they need - from personnel to technology. And we need to have a clear plan for the arena. Whatever they are going to do in regards to the arena, they need to make a decision and show coaching candidates what the plan is. Get your big boy pants on and do a real, high level search that crosses every t and dots every i.
 
LeoBloom said:
And we need to have a clear plan for the arena. Whatever they are going to do in regards to the arena, they need to make a decision and show coaching candidates what the plan is.
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I agree with everything else you said, but don't agree with this. It's not necessary or realistic.
 
1moretimeagain said:
I’d be shocked if UNC hires a coach Cincinnati just fired. That would be quite a turn of events.
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Well Indiana fired Kelvin Sampson and he is doing much better at Houston.

Again, I think CHD has had a pretty good 5 years with no prior HC experience and would like to see him return, but if we are going to reflexively fire CHD today, then
LeoBloom said:
If we decide to make a change, we better have a clear plan in place for the hiring process. We need to show candidates that they will have an elite level budget for players. We need to show that they will have all the resources they need - from personnel to technology. And we need to have a clear plan for the arena. Whatever they are going to do in regards to the arena, they need to make a decision and show coaching candidates what the plan is. Get your big boy pants on and do a real, high level search that crosses every t and dots every i.
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Did we not dot every I and cross every T when we hired Uncle Bill along with his 10 million/ yr contract ? How as that worked out so far ?
 
heelinhell said:
Well Indiana fired Kelvin Sampson and he is doing much better at Houston.

Again, I think CHD has had a pretty good 5 years with no prior HC experience and would like to see him return, but if we are going to reflexively fire CHD today, then

Did we not dot every I and cross every T when we hired Uncle Bill along with his 10 million/ yr contract ? How as that worked out so far ?
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Going out the first round twice and not making the tournament the last 3 years is pretty good? Coming out flat or losing leads multiple times is pretty good? Unable to make adjustments for opponents and during games is pretty good?
 
heelinhell said:
Well Indiana fired Kelvin Sampson and he is doing much better at Houston.

Again, I think CHD has had a pretty good 5 years with no prior HC experience and would like to see him return, but if we are going to reflexively fire CHD today, then

Did we not dot every I and cross every T when we hired Uncle Bill along with his 10 million/ yr contract ? How as that worked out so far ?
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Sampson wasn’t fired based on results.
 
heelinhell said:
Well Indiana fired Kelvin Sampson and he is doing much better at Houston.
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1) Sampson resigned…
2) …because he got busted cheating at Oklahoma & Indiana that ended with a 5 year show cause from the NCAA.

Sampson is like Larry Brown, everyone has known for a long time he can coach, it’s can he stay away from the NCAA enforcement folks that’s his concern.

He’s essentially the inverse of HD.
 
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