Hubert Davis Catch-all

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heel79 said:
Well if you can't or are unwilling to make one, then I guess my point is made. If course we are desirable. But who wants to follow an AA coach who.is am alumnus, anointed by Roy and averages 25 wins a year?
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Following Hubert will not be anything that keeps people away, i think you are grossly overestimating his reputation. Now, how Roy/Carolina family respond to that could be a very large issue (especially given how messy our football hiring process was).
 
heel79 said:
Well if you can't or are unwilling to make one, then I guess my point is made. If course we are desirable. But who wants to follow an AA coach who.is am alumnus, anointed by Roy and averages 25 wins a year?
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No one does. If we fired Hubert there’s honestly a good chance we wouldn’t be able to hire anyone at all actually. The players would probably have to coach themselves.
 
heel79 said:
Well if we fire Hubert we will get shellacked. Trust me.
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I disagree. There will be huge blowback from former players and coaches because they fully support a fellow UNC player and coach. I don’t think there will be a tremendous discussion about firing a black coach. He’s been somewhat on the hot seat so the firing would t be out of the blue.

I think people on the right over exaggerate the idea that the media makes everything about race. It’s similar people on the right saying people only voted for Obama because he’s black. It’s also similar to calling everyone they don’t like in a position of power, a “DEI hire.”

If he ends up being let go, most of the discussion will revolve around his historical connection to the program and the opinions of former players and coaches.
 
heel79 said:
The anti Hubert crowd continue to ignore my concern about maga leadership firing an AA coach with Hubert's pedigree and resume. Is that because you don't think it's an issue or too tough a subject?
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Not an anti Hubert...just my two cents.

The hiring/firing decision of HD should be on the merits of the case: I wouldn't bring the political leadership of the UNC system or race into the decision. That he's a beloved alum and the handpicked successor to the Carolina Way has given him some leeway. At the end of the day the expectations to perform at a level expected of a blue blood will drive the decision. While I wouldn't be as harsh as the anti-HD crowd, I'm realistic that HD has not reached that expected level. It's not really a surprise; we put in a first-time HC into a pressure-cooker environment amidst a sea change in college basketball.

From what Ive heard, I still think HD would fall on his sword than get fired.
 
CRHeel94 said:
Not an anti Hubert...just my two cents.

The hiring/firing decision of HD should be on the merits of the case: I wouldn't bring the political leadership of the UNC system or race into the decision. That he's a beloved alum and the handpicked successor to the Carolina Way has given him some leeway. At the end of the day the expectations to perform at a level expected of a blue blood will drive the decision. While I wouldn't be as harsh as the anti-HD crowd, I'm realistic that HD has not reached that expected level. It's not really a surprise; we put in a first-time HC into a pressure-cooker environment amidst a sea change in college basketball.

From what Ive heard, I still think HD would fall on his sword than get fired.
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"From what Ive heard, I still think HD would fall on his sword than get fired."

There is no way HD makes them fire him. He will do what's best for the program. He loves this program as much as anybody on this planet.
 
Peppers49 said:
No one does. If we fired Hubert there’s honestly a good chance we wouldn’t be able to hire anyone at all actually. The players would probably have to coach themselves.
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In the 1921-22 and 1922-23 seasons we had no coach and the team went a combined 30-7. We were 15-1 in that second season.
 
uncjhodges said:
Following Hubert will not be anything that keeps people away, i think you are grossly overestimating his reputation. Now, how Roy/Carolina family respond to that could be a very large issue (especially given how messy our football hiring process was).
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I’m not sure following Hubert would be an issue because of Hubert’s success (or lack thereof), but this is clearly a divisive issue. If Hubert were to be fired, it will be even more divisive, not only with fans, but former players, gatekeepers, boosters, etc. In that sense, following Hubert may be tough because you have a fractured base.

IMO, the issue will become less divisive over time as HD either proves, for sure, that he is or isn’t the guy. Don’t think that answer is coming this season.
 
Peppers49 said:
No one does. If we fired Hubert there’s honestly a good chance we wouldn’t be able to hire anyone at all actually. The players would probably have to coach themselves.
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The absence here of serious replies buttresses my argument and that of others and makes those offering look kinda silly. I mean, do I really need to remind folks that before you fire a coach averaging 25 wins a year, there should be some semblance of a plan?
 
PTOHeel said:
I disagree. There will be huge blowback from former players and coaches because they fully support a fellow UNC player and coach. I don’t think there will be a tremendous discussion about firing a black coach. He’s been somewhat on the hot seat so the firing would t be out of the blue.

I think people on the right over exaggerate the idea that the media makes everything about race. It’s similar people on the right saying people only voted for Obama because he’s black. It’s also similar to calling everyone they don’t like in a position of power, a “DEI hire.”

If he ends up being let go, most of the discussion will revolve around his historical connection to the program and the opinions of former players and coaches.
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Do you watch Cowherd, Stephen A, and McAfee? I do not if I have a choice, but they are often on in the pro shop I work in. They would have a field day. Trust me.
 
NYCBlueBlood said:
"From what Ive heard, I still think HD would fall on his sword than get fired."

There is no way HD makes them fire him. He will do what's best for the program. He loves this program as much as anybody on this planet.
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I agree that HD will resign rather than be fired, if it comes to that.

I think the rub will come down to the idea that I doubt he'll voluntarily resign barring some major issues and that even if he publicly resigns, it will be known behind the scenes (and, soon, publicly) that he did not resign voluntarily. At that point, I wouldn't expect those who would be upset about HD being fired to respond any differently to a forced resignation.

Whenever HD leaves the program, unless it's in many, many years after a long and successful career, it's going to be painful for the program and many stakeholders.
 
heel79 said:
The absence here of serious replies buttresses my argument and that of others and makes those offering look kinda silly. I mean, do I really need to remind folks that before you fire a coach averaging 25 wins a year, there should be some semblance of a plan?
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I'm not in the fire HD camp just yet, but you keep repeating 25 wins a year as if that's the only metric. Who those wins are against, average finish in the ACC, and tournament results are also part of the package and those aren't as clear cut in terms of being good enough to keep him.
 
heel79 said:
You honestly don't think the talking heads would pounce? Alum. AA. 25 wins a year. Also, as referenced often here, UNC is under seize by the far right that wants to purge the liberal lean from its halls. They would pounce and it could be ugly Dream on.
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No. everyone in the national media knows that North Carolina is not what it used to be.

For me and most people that are senior and Media, carolina was a front line program with different styles but carolina and Duke were beside each other.

I think given someone an opportunity and 5?years... with two major flame outs is easily enough.

Black coaches get fired all the time.
 
heel79 said:
The absence here of serious replies buttresses my argument and that of others and makes those offering look kinda silly. I mean, do I really need to remind folks that before you fire a coach averaging 25 wins a year, there should be some semblance of a plan,
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But it seems you are working under the assumption that the AD is not doing their job. I mean, people have thrown out a bunch of names on this very thread. Some of those are probably not realistic. Some probably are.

I'm not saying I trust the current administration when it comes to hiring coaches for our marquee sports, but if Hubert leaves, there very well may be a plan in place and we are not privy to it. Just because fans on a message board cannot give you a concrete plan of succession does not mean the professionals in place will not have a plan in place. Again, I can fully understand your not trusting the current administration when it comes to making those decisions. I don't fully trust them either.
 
heel79 said:
The absence here of serious replies buttresses my argument and that of others and makes those offering look kinda silly. I mean, do I really need to remind folks that before you fire a coach averaging 25 wins a year, there should be some semblance of a plan?
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The plan would be to run a serious coaching search that has "tiers" of coaches based on proven success and fit for the Carolina job and to make competitive offers that convinces the best one willing to come here to do so.

There is no heir apparent at this point, but Carolina Basketball is a top 2/3 program in CBB history and its HC position is a top 2/3 job. Of course, the entire system has changed over the last 10 or so years and so it is no longer a must that coaches take the best job available to them, but the history, resources, and prestige of Carolina Basketball (and UNC, as a whole) very, very likely mean that there will be significant interest in the position when it comes open.
 
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SnoopRob said:
I agree that HD will resign rather than be fired, if it comes to that.

I think the rub will come down to the idea that I doubt he'll voluntarily resign barring some major issues and that even if he publicly resigns, it will be known behind the scenes (and, soon, publicly) that he did not resign voluntarily. At that point, I wouldn't expect those who would be upset about HD being fired to respond any differently to a forced resignation.

Whenever HD leaves the program, unless it's in many, many years after a long and successful career, it's going to be painful for the program and many stakeholders.
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So was the Doh disaster. serious organizations face leadership decisions all the time... they are not always easy.

This is the mentality of a family owned business... and and while the organization is built as a family the head coach is a custodian to the program.

Keeping the program pushing forward or making attempts to keep it from staying in mediocrity is respecting what has been built.
 
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