Hubert Davis Catch-all

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4thgenheel said:
a lot of people wanted him gone after the fiasco that was 2023, long before our poor performance last season.

i am not one of those people but i know that many of them exist because i defended HD rigorously against them during and after that season.
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I remember there being a lot of grumbling and complaining and folks unhappy, but I don't remember a lot of folks wanting him fired at that point other than that vocal 5% who wanted him gone even when we were up 15 on KU in the NC game.

But I won't argue that there was a lot of unhappiness after the 2023 season.
 
Which coach/team has been the most successful in going to the FF and winning national championships in the last 5 years ?
 
SnoopRob said:
If the situation was so dire that we needed a coach to make drastic improvements, then HD was the wrong choice from the beginning and the only way we can rectify that error now is to move on to a coach who can now make those improvements.
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Who can do that?
 
PTOHeel said:
There are two, independent questions about the future of HD: 1) what do the fans think/want?; 2) what will the actual decision be? Question 1) seems pretty set in stone to me. Fans who want him gone and have wanted him gone for some time are not going to change their minds, regardless of what happens in the tourney. For question 2), I have the same hunch a Snoop. But the uncertainty of who will really be the primary decision maker here makes it more unclear of what the ultimate outcome will be.
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Chancellor Roberts and a hostile, hateful BOG?
 
SnoopRob said:
Given that we're almost through 5 years of HD and we should compare to 5 years of Roy at KU...we can make that comparison.

Roy at KU
Starting Point: Takes over team coming off national championship, but on probation due to prior coach
Year 1: 19-12, 6-8; no postseason (probation); ranked 6/18 weeks (range: 16-20, final: UR)
Year 2: 30-5, 11-3; NCAAT - 2 seed, R32; ranked 16/18 weeks (range: 1-5, final: 5)
Year 3: 27-8, 10-4; conference regular season champs, NCAAT - 3 seed, NC game; ranked 7/17 weeks (range: 8-24, final: 12)
Year 4: 27-5, 11-3; conference regular season & tournament champs; NCAAT - 1 seed, R32; ranked 18/18 weeks (range: 2-12, final: 2)
Year 5: 29-7, 11-3; conference regular season champs; NCAAT - 2 seed, F4; ranked 18/18 weeks (range: 2-9, final: 9)

HD at Carolina
Starting Point: Takes over team coming off a couple of down years with an 18-11 season, talented but young roster
Year 1: 29-10, 15-5; NCAAT - 8 seed, NC game; ranked 3/19 weeks (range: 18-25, final: UR)
Year 2: 20-13, 11-9; no post season (declined NIT bid); ranked 5/19 weeks (range: 1-25, final: UR)
Year 3: 29-8, 17-3; conference regular season champs; NCAAT - 1 seed, S16; ranked 21/21 weeks (range: 3-20, final: 7)
Year 4: 23-14, 13-7; NCAAT - 11 seed, R64; ranked 5/21 weeks (range: 9-20, final: UR)
Year 5: 24-8, 12-6; NCAAT - TBD; ranked 18/18 weeks (range: 11-25, current: 19)

Roy has the clearly superior results here; taking over a team on probation and largely getting top 10 results after the first year compared to a team coming off a couple of down years that has had very inconsistent results over the next 5 seasons.
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love you man:love:

you going into the weeds to support Roy at Kansas during his 1st four years by moving it to a 5 yr comparison and slicing and dicing the seasons for 5 years. I've been day drinking since 7am so I was unaware Hubie has finished his 5th season:unsure:

Be that as it may, Dean and Roy enjoyed the halcyon days where recruits stayed 3 or 4 years and transfers of recruits after joining the teams were rare, not to mention that Dean and Roy didn't worry about having to pay players to come to UNC.

So it would be interesting to compare Dean and Roy navigating Hubie's brave new world in their 1st 4/5 years as a 1st time head coach
 
heelinhell said:
love you man:love:

you going into the weeds to support Roy at Kansas during his 1st four years by moving it to a 5 yr comparison and slicing and dicing the seasons for 5 years. I've been day drinking since 7am so I was unaware Hubie has finished his 5th season:unsure:

Be that as it may, Dean and Roy enjoyed the halcyon days where recruits stayed 3 or 4 years and transfers of recruits after joining the teams were rare, not to mention that Dean and Roy didn't worry about having to pay players to come to UNC.

So it would be interesting to compare Dean and Roy navigating Hubie's brave new world in their 1st 4/5 years as a 1st time head coach
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you can only judge the coach by their contemporaries. Hubert should be dealing with the same difficulties as every other coach in the country, but he's not maintaining elite status like the other two did against their competition. that's really all that matters here.
 
heelinhell said:
love you man:love:

you going into the weeds to support Roy at Kansas during his 1st four years by moving it to a 5 yr comparison and slicing and dicing the seasons for 5 years. I've been day drinking since 7am so I was unaware Hubie has finished his 5th season:unsure:

Be that as it may, Dean and Roy enjoyed the halcyon days where recruits stayed 3 or 4 years and transfers of recruits after joining the teams were rare, not to mention that Dean and Roy didn't worry about having to pay players to come to UNC.

So it would be interesting to compare Dean and Roy navigating Hubie's brave new world in their 1st 4/5 years as a 1st time head coach
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Everyone played by the same rules -- more or less. It is hard to compare eras when dealing with career game stats (e.g., passing TDs today vs. the 1980s), but being better than your contemporaries is a trait that tracks across generations.

In other words, when measuring the greatness of a player, it is useful to compare how much better he is to his contemporaries -- as opposed to overall numbers. Using that approach, Wilt Chamberlain really should get a lot more run as the GOAT because he was so much better than his peers.

In the same vein, regardless as to the changes in basketball since the 1980s, the key is that everyone is operating under the same system at the same time. Roy was able to use the rules of the 1980s and 1990s to smoke the competition. Hubert, has not been able to use the rules of the 2020s to smoke the competition. Indeed, Hubert is performing below UNC's historical norm while Roy performed better than Kansas' historical norm.

That is really all that should matter when comparing eras. The fact that Roy may not have thrived in this era is neither here nor there. We should be looking for a coach who is head and shoulders above the other coaches of his era -- something that we have had for almost my entire time on this planet.
 
heelinhell said:
love you man:love:

you going into the weeds to support Roy at Kansas during his 1st four years by moving it to a 5 yr comparison and slicing and dicing the seasons for 5 years. I've been day drinking since 7am so I was unaware Hubie has finished his 5th season:unsure:

Be that as it may, Dean and Roy enjoyed the halcyon days where recruits stayed 3 or 4 years and transfers of recruits after joining the teams were rare, not to mention that Dean and Roy didn't worry about having to pay players to come to UNC.

So it would be interesting to compare Dean and Roy navigating Hubie's brave new world in their 1st 4/5 years as a 1st time head coach
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Whatever rules Dean and Roy played by, so did the other programs at the time. Their players stayed 3 and 4 years - but so did everyone else's. Their players didn't transfer often - but neither did anyone else's. They didn't have to worry about paying players, but neither did their competition.

So yes, the basketball world Hubert is coaching in is far different than the one Dean and Roy coached in. But as a coach you are evaluated against the competition in your own era, under your own rules, not some wistful imagining about how you would have done in a different era.

As I've said before, the coaches at places like Duke, Arizona, UConn, Purdue, and Houston are coaching in the same "Brave New World" as Hubert and still managing to produce a contending team almost every season. I'm not saying it's easy. I'm not disputing that it's a whole new world compared to what Dean and Roy dealt with. But either Hubert shows that he is among the elite at navigating this new world, or we go looking for someone who is. Because other schools/coaches are showing it is possible to sustain success over several years, even with much higher roster turnover than 10 or 25 years ago.
 
Calheel said:
Everyone played by the same rules -- more or less. It is hard to compare eras when dealing with career game stats (e.g., passing TDs today vs. the 1980s), but being better than your contemporaries is a trait that tracks across generations.

In other words, when measuring the greatness of a player, it is useful to compare how much better he is to his contemporaries -- as opposed to overall numbers. Using that approach, Wilt Chamberlain really should get a lot more run as the GOAT because he was so much better than his peers.

In the same vein, regardless as to the changes in basketball since the 1980s, the key is that everyone is operating under the same system at the same time. Roy was able to use the rules of the 1980s and 1990s to smoke the competition. Hubert, has not been able to use the rules of the 2020s to smoke the competition. Indeed, Hubert is performing below UNC's historical norm while Roy performed better than Kansas' historical norm.

That is really all that should matter when comparing eras. The fact that Roy may not have thrived in this era is neither here nor there. We should be looking for a coach who is head and shoulders above the other coaches of his era -- something that we have had for almost my entire time on this planet.
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lol you posted this while I was writing my own post and basically said it better than me.
 
heelinhell said:
love you man:love:

you going into the weeds to support Roy at Kansas during his 1st four years by moving it to a 5 yr comparison and slicing and dicing the seasons for 5 years. I've been day drinking since 7am so I was unaware Hubie has finished his 5th season:unsure:

Be that as it may, Dean and Roy enjoyed the halcyon days where recruits stayed 3 or 4 years and transfers of recruits after joining the teams were rare, not to mention that Dean and Roy didn't worry about having to pay players to come to UNC.

So it would be interesting to compare Dean and Roy navigating Hubie's brave new world in their 1st 4/5 years as a 1st time head coach
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I didn't so much "move it to a 5 year comparison" as recognize that we're all but through 5 years of HD (only the NCAAT is TBD). But I'll make you a deal...if we do well enough in the NCAAT that it makes a material difference, I'll be glad for us to have to revisit after the end of the tournament.

Even if you take Roy and HD's first 4 years, Roy was much better.

BTW, you're the only HD supporter I know who calls him Hubie. I usually only see that nickname from the detractors. 🤷‍♂️
 
rodoheel said:
Whatever rules Dean and Roy played by, so did the other programs at the time. Their players stayed 3 and 4 years - but so did everyone else's. Their players didn't transfer often - but neither did anyone else's. They didn't have to worry about paying players, but neither did their competition.

So yes, the basketball world Hubert is coaching in is far different than the one Dean and Roy coached in. But as a coach you are evaluated against the competition in your own era, under your own rules, not some wistful imagining about how you would have done in a different era.

As I've said before, the coaches at places like Duke, Arizona, UConn, Purdue, and Houston are coaching in the same "Brave New World" as Hubert and still managing to produce a contending team almost every season. I'm not saying it's easy. I'm not disputing that it's a whole new world compared to what Dean and Roy dealt with. But either Hubert shows that he is among the elite at navigating this new world, or we go looking for someone who is. Because other schools/coaches are showing it is possible to sustain success over several years, even with much higher roster turnover than 10 or 25 years ago.
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Good point
so who do we get to replace Hubie who can have UNC compete with dook**, AZ, UCONN, Purdue, and Houston ?
 
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