Hubert Davis Catch-all

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NYCBlueBlood said:
I don't think we are that far apart. I agree he's done better and it's not easy to do at ISU. But if he does what he's done at ISU at UNC, fans will not be satisfied. As non family pushing out family, he won't exactly get a fair chance. He will be on a razors edge from day 1.
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It appears that “razor’s edge” is the condition of the job at Carolina from now forward.
 
Calheel said:
I'd look at average tenure of coaches at bluebloods vs. non-bluebloods.

Some schools, like UCLA and Indiana, have pretty frequent turnover (although perhaps slightly longer tenure than an average school). But Kansas, Kentucky, Duke, UNC, Connecticut, Syracuse, Michigan State all have much, much longer average tenures for coaches.

If these pressure cauldrons would chew up and spit out 95 out of 100 coaches, it would be almost statically impossible for these programs to get so lucky as to routinely find the 5% of coaches who can hack the job.

Obviously, you are never going to get one of those jobs until you have established your bona fides somewhere. But given these programs hit rate and ability to sustain success over long periods of time, I am of the view that it is much easier to be successful at a blue blood than a regular school.

That was always one of the attacks on Roy by jealous coaches. They thought he had it so easy because he never had to work his way up to an elite program.
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I don't think they are lucky to find coaches who work, they get to pick from the top 5% ton10% of prospects who are available at the time... and often prospects who are not available for anybody else. It's not luck, it's privilege. But just because we took a huge chance on HD because he was family, it does not mean we take a huge chance on his successor who isn't.

We are UNC. We shouldn't have settled for HD. I didn't agree with his hire at the time. I understood it because being non family presents a whole host of issues for any potential successor. But we should hold out for somebody with the highest probability of success as possible.

And somebody who has never sniffed a blue blood program before and has no concept of the pressure that comes with that... I want to see more than 60% win rate in the Big 12.
 
NYCBlueBlood said:
I don't think they are lucky to find coaches who work, they get to pick from the top 5% ton10% of prospects who are available at the time... and often prospects who are not available for anybody else. It's not luck, it's privilege. But just because we took a huge chance on HD because he was family, it does not mean we take a huge chance on his successor who isn't.

We are UNC. We shouldn't have settled for HD. I didn't agree with his hire at the time. I understood it because being non family presents a whole host of issues for any potential successor. But we should hold out for somebody with the highest probability of success as possible.

And somebody who has never sniffed a blue blood program before and has no concept of the pressure that comes with that... I want to see more than 60% win rate in the Big 12.
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Sounds like your ideal candidate would be Jon Scheyer.
 
donbosco said:
It appears that “razor’s edge” is the condition of the job at Carolina from now forward.
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That "razor's edge" has been a condition of the job at every elite CBB program for 40+ years now (and probably longer than that, but that's as far as my memory goes back). I mean, hell, we had folks hanging Dean in effigy in 1965.

Coaches at Carolina have largely dealt with it by winning a lot, but that doesn't mean that it hasn't existed here for a long time.
 
finesse said:
It's a valid point but my understanding is that most mainstream Christians believe in redemption. If the police or school didn't object, I'm not going to.
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I believe in redemption... but I also believe that kids are growing up in a VERY different world than we did... one where they were exposed to porn that normalized certain things from a VERY young age, making it very hard to understand what's normal/ ok and what's not.

He made a very bad decision, but I suspect it's one a MUCH larger percentage of college athletes on elite teams make than we want to think about.

HD is a pretty strict, conservative guy. I can't imagine him giving a second chance unless High was truly repentant for his mistake. I trust his decision here. I understand why others wouldn't. But I think using it as pot shot at his morality is poorly done.
 
I never really heard what happened. I understand that there was some controversy about what happened and how it resolved but it boiled down to "Not my monkey, not my circus" as the Poles say.
 
finesse said:
I never really heard what happened. I understand that there was some controversy about what happened and how it resolved but it boiled down to "Not my monkey, not my circus" as the Poles say.
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I don't know the details, but the jist of it is he secretly recorded a sex act without telling the other party.
 
NYCBlueBlood said:
I don't think they are lucky to find coaches who work, they get to pick from the top 5% ton10% of prospects who are available at the time... and often prospects who are not available for anybody else. It's not luck, it's privilege. But just because we took a huge chance on HD because he was family, it does not mean we take a huge chance on his successor who isn't.
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If you recognize that the blue bloods have had continued success by "get[ting] top ick from the top 5 to 10% of prospects who are available at the time", then why do you think Carolina would have to take "a huge chance" on HD's successor? Wouldn't it logically flow that we'd likely be choosing from that top 5 to 10% of available prospects?
 
SnoopRob said:
If you recognize that the blue bloods have had continued success by "get[ting] top ick from the top 5 to 10% of prospects who are available at the time", then why do you think Carolina would have to take "a huge chance" on HD's successor? Wouldn't it logically flow that we'd likely be choosing from that top 5 to 10% of available prospects?
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We should be. But I don't see the majority of names being listed as in that category. If we can get one, take it. But taking a chance on somebody who maybe, kinda sorta is an elite prospect is crazy to me.
 
Calheel said:
And then lied about deleting it. And then showed it to another person after said lie.
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I never heard about the latter part. I heard she caught him doing it and he deleted it and did not show it to anyone else. Not that what I heard was correct.
 
I’m getting visions of a Coach Dean Smith having ended up at a Division 3 school, being very successful coaching both basketball and golf and being a legendary math instructor along the way.
 
NYCBlueBlood said:
We should be. But I don't see the majority of names being listed as in that category. If we can get one, take it. But taking a chance on somebody who maybe, kinda sorta is an elite prospect is crazy to me.
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In CBB right now, who would you put on the "NYCBlueBlood approved" list for Carolina, if we were to make a move?
 
Icky Mettle said:
I never heard about the latter part. I heard she caught him doing it and he deleted it and did not show it to anyone else. Not that what I heard was correct.
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There are multiple versions of the story out there. I've heard this version and Calheel's version, but, of course, there's no official release of info to check it against.
 
SnoopRob said:
In CBB right now, who would you put on the "NYCBlueBlood approved" list for Carolina, if we were to make a move?
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As close to a can't miss pick as humanly possible. I just sat down at the bar and got a beer, so I won't be able to give you anything less annoyingly vague right now. But I don't put TJ (can't spell his last name) on that list.
 
SnoopRob said:
In CBB right now, who would you put on the "NYCBlueBlood approved" list for Carolina, if we were to make a move?
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And also, that's precisely it. It's easy to tear a coach down. No coach has a perfect record. I can tear down almost any alternative to HD the same way people can tear down HD himself. It's easy to say somebody doesn't cut it to UNC standards. It's damn hard to say who actually does... who we can also get.
 
Sorry if this was already talked about but you guys are really able to spin some yarn on this subject.

As either IC or 247 commented on this subject? Recently? Any rumors from donor? That kind of stuff. Insiders opinions?
 
Willy said:
The risk, to me, is not only that TJO may only be marginally better than HD, but that you would completely alienate the former players that make UNC such a special place and wind up with a coach only that is marginally better than HD. There are opportunity costs here more than just Ws and Ls.
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Exactly. The risk of sinking to a disastrous state is being greatly underestimated, and threading the needle to get a coach who even lasts (much less wildly surpasses HD’s results) is also being greatly underestimated. With this entitled fanbase??

But again, I’d respect it more from people who said “I’m fine risking that special family bond that nearly no other program has, because my approach leans more toward wins at the expense of the family dynamic.” Then I’d say ok, we simply differ because my approach leans more toward the family at the expense of a few more wins, maybe (and maybe not). But nope, these guys are thinking they’ll have their cake and eat it too, because that’s what they think they deserve.

In my view things are nowhere near bad enough to roll those dice. Not because I think HD is flawless, or that there’s no other coach who could do better… but because I appreciate how much worse it could be. The portal, NIL mercenaries, roster turnover, cord cutters and the fractured media landscape, and Gen Z is f’ing weird and more anti-sports than any generation before it. The game is in TROUBLE. Sure March Madness will be there to some degree for the foreseeable future. But fans’ connections to the game and to their teams are dwindling, fast. Yet some of you have been frothing to dismiss one of Dean’s and Roy’s own because he’s been subpar, in your view. You deserve better. You are entitled to more.

Well, if you get your wish we’re all going to find out the hard way what’s really left of the program and the Carolina Way, and college hoops. Not much, is my guess. And that point alone explains my position.
 
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