I just got a new roof for my house for free

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Commies. And do you know how many birds windmills and solar panels murder every day?

And what happens if there is no wind, or it is a cloudy day, you can't even watch Springer or turn the lights on.
 
We've had PV panels on our last 2 houses. Leased the panels on the first house and paid for/ financed current system as part of new construction loan. Current house we also installed (2) Tesla batteries for backup power. We cover about 75% of our electricity. Only come up short because of the pool. Heat pump for the pool heater uses a crazy amount of power even though it only runs in May, part of June, and Septemeber.

We live in MA which is pushing all new construction to all electric (no combustion appliances at all). I think this is a laudable goal and certainly the direction we should head as a country. The issue here is that all of our power plants are natural gas fired and all of that natural gas has to be transported from afar. As a result, New England (and MA in particular) has the highest electric rates in the country.

Going all electric only works if you can offset the electricity cost with PV. It doesn't matter how efficient the new heat pumps are, if they're running all winter at ever increasing rates people are not going to be able to pay their bills.

As with most complicated issues, the solutions are not easy or simple. I think it is great how the Feds and MA have incentized PV install, but they're going to have to start upgrading the grid in short order as well as building more efficient plants that aren't so reliant on fossil fuels.
 
douglas said:
If you are getting your net power free someone else is paying for the distribution infrastructure that provides your backup. Since the power company is forced to pay you for excess power, what happens when they don't need it, more subsidies

Put the money in utility scale solar instead of rooftop is much better way to spend our money

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1. The electricity produced by solar panels has a zero marginal cost. It is free. That's why it's great.
2. The distribution infrastructure is not free, nor are the solar panels. That's where the federal incentives come in. They are great.
3. My electricity provider made the decision as to rooftop or utility scale solar. They have been given a renewable energy mandate. They have decided that rooftop solar is a useful way to meet those requirements, perhaps because utility scale solar isn't feasible here. Whatever the reason, I'm quite positive that the power company understands its finances better than you or me.
4. It's always the same story with you guys. You're always against everything, even the things you sometimes say you are for.

For instance, you say now that utility scale solar is the way to go. But on the other board we had a long thread about utility scale solar, in which a poster was claiming that it is actually bad and that nuclear is the only way to go. I don't remember if you chimed in supporting him, but I'm positive that you didn't chime in to say that utility scale solar is good. And there is no doubt in my mind at all that if we started doing nuclear, you guys would find some new reason not to do it.

I honestly don't care if utility scale solar is better than rooftop solar. Those aren't the choices right now. The choices are rooftop solar or (in my case) coal. This isn't even a close call. Rooftop solar > gas >> coal. And one very significant reason those are the choices is that your party absolutely refuses to support policies to reduce carbon emissions. If you want us to spend our money on solar more efficiently, then vote Dem and engage in a real policy debate. But as long as you vote GOP, you have no standing to complain about cost efficiency of renewables.
 
bassydude77 said:
We've had PV panels on our last 2 houses. Leased the panels on the first house and paid for/ financed current system as part of new construction loan. Current house we also installed (2) Tesla batteries for backup power. We cover about 75% of our electricity. Only come up short because of the pool. Heat pump for the pool heater uses a crazy amount of power even though it only runs in May, part of June, and Septemeber.

We live in MA which is pushing all new construction to all electric (no combustion appliances at all). I think this is a laudable goal and certainly the direction we should head as a country. The issue here is that all of our power plants are natural gas fired and all of that natural gas has to be transported from afar. As a result, New England (and MA in particular) has the highest electric rates in the country.

Going all electric only works if you can offset the electricity cost with PV. It doesn't matter how efficient the new heat pumps are, if they're running all winter at ever increasing rates people are not going to be able to pay their bills.

As with most complicated issues, the solutions are not easy or simple. I think it is great how the Feds and MA have incentized PV install, but they're going to have to start upgrading the grid in short order as well as building more efficient plants that aren't so reliant on fossil fuels.
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There's also wind power. But I hear what you're saying. The grid issues are so frustrating. Again, a significant part of the problem -- perhaps the primary one -- is that the GOP is actively sabotaging the process of switching to a non-carbon system.

Oh, and luxuries like private pools in MA seem like the sort of thing that maybe will be (and should be) less affordable in a rapidly warming world that urgently needs to decarbonize. What do you think?
 
3. My electricity provider made the decision as to rooftop or utility scale solar. They have been given a renewable energy mandate. They have decided that rooftop solar is a useful way to meet those requirements, perhaps because utility scale solar isn't feasible here. Whatever the reason, I'm quite positive that the power company understands its finances better than you or me

No those decision are almost always made by legislatures and public utility commissions. Most utilities have no choice in net metering, I know that is true in north carolina
 
honestly don't care if utility scale solar is better than rooftop solar. Those aren't the choices right now. The choices are rooftop solar or (in my case) coal. This isn't even a close call. Rooftop solar > gas >> coal. And one very significant reason those are the choices is that your party absolutely refuses to support policies to reduce carbon emissions. If you want us to spend our money on solar more efficiently, then vote Dem and engage in a real policy debate. But as long as you vote GOP, you have no standing to complain about cost efficiency of renewables.

What you are missing is the cost for all this great stuff and how they money could be better spent elsewhere. I know the industry because i have been in solar construction for years in NC and Nevada. You have to consider the cost and benefits. More later
 
douglas said:
The 25% increase in cost is nationally. California is way more. Changes in California net-metering are prospective only i believe so the rich will keep on benefiting at the expense of the poor. Meanwhile other states will continue with subsidies for the rich. But they will feel real good about themselves. I have several hundred acres of trees, i am doing more than you.

Forest Carbon Works

forestcarbonworks.org forestcarbonworks.org

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Electrical companies need to make a profit.

In have solar panels. I pay essentially zero. In CA.
 
douglas said:
3. My electricity provider made the decision as to rooftop or utility scale solar. They have been given a renewable energy mandate. They have decided that rooftop solar is a useful way to meet those requirements, perhaps because utility scale solar isn't feasible here. Whatever the reason, I'm quite positive that the power company understands its finances better than you or me

No those decision are almost always made by legislatures and public utility commissions. Most utilities have no choice in net metering, I know that is true in north carolina
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I just can't get over the thought process here. "Those decisions are almost always made by legislatures; I know that because that's how it is in one of the 50 states. Or maybe two."

This is why it's really hard to have a conversation with you, even if you're trying to be reasonable. STOP TALKING ABOUT SHIT YOU DON'T KNOW OR UNDERSTAND. For instance, public utility commissions frequently adopt industry proposals. Even if it was the case that the decision in my state was made by a public utility commission, it would still be made by people much more knowledgeable about the economics than you, and it would be with substantial input from the companies themselves.

I swear to God. You've been in solar construction for years? Great. Find me the thread where I tell you how to install solar panels. Oh, wait, it doesn't exist because I DON'T TALK ABOUT SHIT I DON'T KNOW OR UNDERSTAND. I have no need to have an opinion on every last thing. That's why I am here, and not on the ZZL-Construction.

People sometimes accuse me of thinking that I'm an expert in everything. That's not remotely true. What they are seeing instead is that I typically refrain from offering strong opinions on issues I know nothing about. Of course, those negative data points aren't seen. Nobody keeps track of all the BS I could spout if I didn't restrict myself to the topics I understand. And yes, I'm quite proud of this. I think our world would be better if people would generally learn more before forming "opinions."
 
superrific said:
I just can't get over the thought process here. "Those decisions are almost always made by legislatures; I know that because that's how it is in one of the 50 states. Or maybe two."

This is why it's really hard to have a conversation with you, even if you're trying to be reasonable. STOP TALKING ABOUT SHIT YOU DON'T KNOW OR UNDERSTAND. For instance, public utility commissions frequently adopt industry proposals. Even if it was the case that the decision in my state was made by a public utility commission, it would still be made by people much more knowledgeable about the economics than you, and it would be with substantial input from the companies themselves.

I swear to God. You've been in solar construction for years? Great. Find me the thread where I tell you how to install solar panels. Oh, wait, it doesn't exist because I DON'T TALK ABOUT SHIT I DON'T KNOW OR UNDERSTAND. I have no need to have an opinion on every last thing. That's why I am here, and not on the ZZL-Construction.

People sometimes accuse me of thinking that I'm an expert in everything. That's not remotely true. What they are seeing instead is that I typically refrain from offering strong opinions on issues I know nothing about. Of course, those negative data points aren't seen. Nobody keeps track of all the BS I could spout if I didn't restrict myself to the topics I understand. And yes, I'm quite proud of this. I think our world would be better if people would generally learn more before forming "opinions."
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Did you buy your panels (cash or finance) or lease? Wasn’t clear if it is ops or similar or buy. Any batteries?
 
superrific said:
Bought, financed, no batteries.
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I don’t have batteries. It didn’t seem to make sense at the time. The only benefit would be able to use the batteries during peak hours when solar is weak. I also wish my system was a little bigger.

Overall though I’m happy as my power is essentially covered but I didn’t use much. Very little AC. I also charged the car at night at that was essentially free with the special plan for car and solar.

That’s a sweet deal for the roof. I shared your story with my friend. Where are you located?
 
haroldminer said:
I don’t have batteries. It didn’t seem to make sense at the time. The only benefit would be able to use the batteries during peak hours when solar is weak. I also wish my system was a little bigger.

Overall though I’m happy as my power is essentially covered but I didn’t use much. Very little AC. I also charged the car at night at that was essentially free with the special plan for car and solar.

That’s a sweet deal for the roof. I shared your story with my friend. Where are you located?
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I don't like to say. It would make it much easier to find me in real life. I share a lot of stuff on these boards that I don't necessarily want people to associate with the actual me.
 
We have batteries, but it’s not in the US and as of yet no bidirectional metering, although we’re told it’s coming. The home is in a country lacking energy/power stability but gets a fuckton of sun so it has been a godsend. Drawing power from the sun is a no-brainer, notwithstanding all the bureaucratic yammering.
 
douglas said:
If you are getting your net power free someone else is paying for the distribution infrastructure that provides your backup. Since the power company is forced to pay you for excess power, what happens when they don't need it, more subsidies

Put the money in utility scale solar instead of rooftop is much better way to spend our money

Click to expand...
When they don't need it?

😂 They do need it. It saves them from buying power from generation utilities.

Good Lord it's not hard
 
haroldminer said:
I don’t have batteries. It didn’t seem to make sense at the time. The only benefit would be able to use the batteries during peak hours when solar is weak. I also wish my system was a little bigger.

Overall though I’m happy as my power is essentially covered but I didn’t use much. Very little AC. I also charged the car at night at that was essentially free with the special plan for car and solar.

That’s a sweet deal for the roof. I shared your story with my friend. Where are you located?
Click to expand...

The main benefit of a battery is backup in a power outage. Reason being is that otherwise, the power you get billed is really just:

Power generated - power used = money back ( or if negative it's money owed)

Your system is just connected to the grid. So the actual power you use, whether it's from your panels or from the utility, doesn't really matter. So batteries help for backup instead of a generator. They cost a lot more but we opted for the battery because we were already doing the system.
 
aGDevil2k said:
The main benefit of a battery is backup in a power outage. Reason being is that otherwise, the power you get billed is really just:

Power generated - power used = money back ( or if negative it's money owed)

Your system is just connected to the grid. So the actual power you use, whether it's from your panels or from the utility, doesn't really matter. So batteries help for backup instead of a generator. They cost a lot more but we opted for the battery because we were already doing the system.
Click to expand...

The power generated only offsets the power used at specific times. Our rates are time of use. Peak time is something like 5-9 pm, when solar is weak. Peak prices are like 4x, so if you can use battery power during that time there can be a big benefit than solar during the morning or the sunniest times.
 
haroldminer said:
The power generated only offsets the power used at specific times. Our rates are time of use. Peak time is something like 5-9 pm, when solar is weak. Peak prices are like 4x, so if you can use battery power during that time there can be a big benefit than solar during the morning or the sunniest times.
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Oh... You are California right?

Our utility doesn't differentiate on solar by time.
 
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