—> ICE / Immigration Catch-All

[Mulberry Heel]

If Trump does things according the left, will the left then favor deportations for those that came illegally and with the help of the last administration? Very important to know now. Otherwise the left is grandstanding like usual.

And what about ICE agents detaining actual American citizens for ten days - ten days! - simply because they didn't have an ID? And his family had to frantically search to find him, otherwise he might still be detained or could have even been deported, even though he is a U.S. citizen but was arrested and detained anyway? Can you not see the problems with what's happening here with ICE just arresting anyone who looks suspicious (They look Hispanic! They have a Spanish/Latino last name - they gotta be an illegal immigrant!) or deporting people without due process?

 

[StrangePackage]

I'm not sure what the right believes but everybody deports. Obama did, Trump O did, Biden did, Trump II is going to.

The question is what happens to those folks between when they're picked up and when they're deported. Obama and Biden let a lot of them go. That might be the humane thing to do but it tends to encourage more migrants to try their luck, especially for Biden. And that really was an issue for Biden and Harris as his appointed deputy.

Trump I put people in cages and separated kids from their parents to make it miserable for folks that want to migrate. It hurt him politically but less people were trying to come.

Trump Ii is now deporting people to put them in even worse prisons again to make it pretty miserable for people to come here. He's likely going to lose in court and I think it will hurt him politically, but I suspect migration will drop sharply from Biden's term.

Is there some reason that you left out that the Trump administration's policy of state sponsored kidnapping was illegal and grossly immoral?

Political consequences be damned, it was deeply wrong by virtually any metric.

 

[gtyellowjacket]

Is there some reason that you left out that the Trump administration's policy of state sponsored kidnapping was illegal and grossly immoral?

Political consequences be damned, it was deeply wrong by virtually any metric.

Did i? I mentioned that he would likely lose in court. Is there a reason you ignored that?

 

[StrangePackage]

Did i? I mentioned that he would likely lose in court. Is there a reason you ignored that?

You did.

I left it out because you addressed said it and I agree that it will not stand in court. But Trump's state sponsored kidnapping (like his policy of stealing children) is not merely illegal or politically damaging - they're fundamentally wrong and morally indefensible.

I'm just asking why you left those out of your critique?

 

[evrheel]

just show me the evidence first cuz you've already f'd up twice

 

[gtyellowjacket]

You did.

I left it out because you addressed said it and I agree that it will not stand in court. But Trump's state sponsored kidnapping (like his policy of stealing children) is not merely illegal or politically damaging - they're fundamentally wrong and morally indefensible.

I'm just asking why you left those out of your critique?

I thought it was implied. As is putting people in cages or separating kids from their parents. I didn't realize I needed to spell that out for anyone specifically. Is there a reason you don't automatically associate those things with being fundamentally wrong or morally indefensible? I'm just asking why you wouldn't already know that.

 

[StrangePackage]

I thought it was implied. As is putting people in cages or separating kids from their parents. I didn't realize I needed to spell that out for anyone specifically. Is there a reason you don't automatically associate those things with being fundamentally wrong or morally indefensible? I'm just asking why you wouldn't already know that.

It wasn't implied at all. The most you said about them was that it would be politically harmful. Leaving out the fundamental wrongness is a way of sanitizing the behavior- especially when it is listed alongside other activities which are in no way morally equivalent.

I do associate those things with being wrong and morally indefensible. Based on your posting history, I am not convinced you share that understanding. Including this thread.

 

[superrific]

Immigration was a top issue of concern. And most polls showed Trump leading the issue. We shouldn't be back tracking with well known facts. Try and keep up!

Convenient how you guys keep changing your story about why Trump won.

It's as if people voted for many different reasons, and there's no mandate for any specific issue. The popular vote doesn't override the constitution.

What we are talking about is the constitution. This isn't about migrants or "illegal" immigrants. This is about whether the president has to follow the law.

 

[superrific]

Obama and Biden let a lot of them go.

Everyone "lets" a lot of them "go," including Trump. Because there isn't enough space or resources to house them. I think Congress might have tried to address the problem but if I recall, somebody was very angry about that prospect and made them back off.

 

[evrheel]

Comparing the Biden and Trump Deportation Records​

Comparing the Biden and Trump Deportation Records

The Biden administration is on pace to carry out as many deportations as the Trump administration, although an overwhelming number have come in the form of voluntary returns at the border, rather than removals of unauthorized immigrants from the U.S. interior. This shift has echoes of earlier...

www.migrationpolicy.org

Trump admitted that when he said 10 - 20 million illegals he just made that up because the real number is closer to 100 million. That's why it has been so easy to hire illegals to work at Mar-a-lago and save a ton of money

Immigration was a top issue of concern. And most polls showed Trump leading the issue. We shouldn't be back tracking with well known facts. Try and keep up!

Thought you were a banned IC poster now, using a different name

Cat got your tongue?

C'mon try to keep up

 

[evrheel]

Immigration was a top issue of concern. And most polls showed Trump leading the issue. We shouldn't be back tracking with well known facts. Try and keep up!

If immigration was a top concern, why did Trump torpedo the bipartisan border bill?

 

[gtyellowjacket]

It wasn't implied at all. The most you said about them was that it would be politically harmful. Leaving out the fundamental wrongness is a way of sanitizing the behavior- especially when it is listed alongside other activities which are in no way morally equivalent.

I do associate those things with being wrong and morally indefensible. Based on your posting history, I am not convinced you share that understanding. Including this thread.

I'm sorry you feel that way. I just think putting kids in cages and shipping them off to some hell hole prison is morally wrong on its face. I assumed everyone would feel that way but obviously I was wrong.

 

[nycfan]

 

[nycfan]

 

[evrheel]

Don't forget the SCOTUS Donnie

 

[nycfan]

Bukele Floats Prisoner Swap Deal to Set Trump Deportees Free​

Bukele Floats Prisoner Swap Deal to Set Trump Deportees Free

El Salvador’s president addressed Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro in a social media post.

www.thedailybeast.com

“… The Salvadoran president wrote in a social media post addressed to Venezuela’s President Nicolás Maduro that “unlike our detainees… your political prisoners have not committed any crimes.”

His post called for the “release and surrender” of a journalist, lawyer and activist, four political leaders and almost 50 detainees of other nationalities, including U.S., European and Middle Eastern nationals.

… It wasn’t clear whether Bukele was offering to repatriate the men in exchange for guarantees they would be imprisoned in Venezuela.

Nor was it clear whether he really intended to bypass the U.S., or whether he had publicly posted his offer directly to Venezuela as a way to bolster the Trump administration’s claims it no longer has any legal authority over the men in question. …”

 

[nycfan]

Bukele Floats Prisoner Swap Deal to Set Trump Deportees Free​

Bukele Floats Prisoner Swap Deal to Set Trump Deportees Free

El Salvador’s president addressed Venezuelan President Nicolás Maduro in a social media post.

www.thedailybeast.com

“… The Salvadoran president wrote in a social media post addressed to Venezuela’s President Nicolás Maduro that “unlike our detainees… your political prisoners have not committed any crimes.”

His post called for the “release and surrender” of a journalist, lawyer and activist, four political leaders and almost 50 detainees of other nationalities, including U.S., European and Middle Eastern nationals.

… It wasn’t clear whether Bukele was offering to repatriate the men in exchange for guarantees they would be imprisoned in Venezuela.

Nor was it clear whether he really intended to bypass the U.S., or whether he had publicly posted his offer directly to Venezuela as a way to bolster the Trump administration’s claims it no longer has any legal authority over the men in question. …”

“… Bukele nevertheless wrote on social media that his foreign ministry would forward Venezuela a formal proposal for the prisoner swap.

The country’s [Venezuela’s] chief prosecutor Tarek William Saab blasted the offer in a statement, Reuters reported. He demanded to know what crimes the detainees had been accused of, whether they had appeared before a judge and had access to legal counsel, and whether they had been allowed to contact their families.

The offer reaffirmed that the Venezuelan deportees “are being arbitrarily detained and in a condition of forced disappearance,” he wrote. …”

 

[ZenMode]

It's clear that the Trump admin screwed up when they deported Garcia to El Salvador but, as far as the other non-permanent residents are concerned, why would they be treated any different than any other foreign national, i.e. an ambassador, that the President has decided isn't welcome here? From what I've read, there's no requirement for an unwanted ambassador to be given a chance to present his/her case. In fact, the majority of people who arrive at a port of entry, and are immediately turned away, are never given a court hearing.

 

[Calheel]

It's clear that the Trump admin screwed up when they deported Garcia to El Salvador but, as far as the other non-permanent residents are concerned, why would they be treated any different than any other foreign national, i.e. an ambassador, that the President has decided isn't welcome here? From what I've read, there's no requirement for an unwanted ambassador to be given a chance to present his/her case. In fact, the majority of people who arrive at a port of entry, and are immediately turned away, are never given a court hearing.

Ambassadors are treated differently under the law due to diplomatic immunity -- it is almost like they are not physically present in the US. That is why ambassador kids born in the US are not US citizens.

US laws are different once you cross into the country. That is true of virtually every country on earth. You can deny people entry, but once you admit them, different laws apply.

 

[Calheel]

It's clear that the Trump admin screwed up when they deported Garcia to El Salvador but, as far as the other non-permanent residents are concerned, why would they be treated any different than any other foreign national, i.e. an ambassador, that the President has decided isn't welcome here? From what I've read, there's no requirement for an unwanted ambassador to be given a chance to present his/her case. In fact, the majority of people who arrive at a port of entry, and are immediately turned away, are never given a court hearing.

Also, how do you know someone is a foreign national or not if you do not afford due process? What if Trump said you were a foreign national and wanted to send you to CECOT? Would you want some way to prove your innocence?