—> ICE / Immigration Catch-All

[Callatoroy]

You, two hours ago: "But I don't believe that is the intent nor do I believe the numbers are outside of the statistical probability."

So what "conservative" sources have you seen that detail the alleged "due diligence" ICE is conducting before doing these raids? What do your "conservative" sources say about the unconstitutional treatment than many Latino US citizens have experienced, or the inhumane treatment tens of thousands of incarcerated Latinos are experiencing? What is the "statistical probability" you referenced, and what's the basis for your belief that the incarceration and deportation of US citizens we've seen over the past three months is consistent with what has happened in the 250 years this republic has existed?

I say this with the respect afforded to someone who I'm confident is more intelligent than the other MAGAs who post here. Why did you leave your brains at the door when Trump took over the GOP? How can you not see that everything he is doing would be grounds for a violent insurrection by your (heavily armed) team if the roles were reversed? How can you possibly be okay with Trump creating a militarized department, reportable only to him, with a budget larger than all but three national militaries? What happened that caused you to support an unabashed authoritarian fascist over the republican dream articulated in our constitution?

What militarized department is that? All military departments report to trump.

I'm sincerely trying to figure out how you and I can communicate better with respect to your understanding of the questions you ask regarding my "support" for trump. For example, you claim (paraphrasing here) trump is destroying democracy and is going to turn the country into a fascist state. I have seen zero evidence of that. Yet, you have no problem with biden's revolving door immigration policy when a fundamental responsibility of a president is to secure our border. Given what they did, I could argue biden was destroying our democracy. His end-a-round the courts on student loan forgiveness was a pure trump like move. The left's hand picking kamala was anything but democracy. So I would ask you the same thing regarding your support for biden.

 

[ZenMode]

 

[superrific]

I have seen zero evidence of that.

As we say, you are one of the stupidest posters around. The evidence is all around you.

Pretty much everything you say is objectively false. For instance, Biden didn't make an end run around the courts to do anything. Since you know nothing about courts or law, you just lap up the right-wing baby gibberish as if it was truth. This is why you struggle so mightily when you talk to people who do know things, who expect at least some level of coherence and defensibility from their interlocutors. Hence your posts always end up as some version of "I know you are but what am I."

 

[superrific]

That's probably true. I don't think Zen is a true MAGA, though. He's just a troll with no moral integrity. I agree the field that makes up our MAGA posters is barren, but calla is one of the few struggling yellow weeds in that brown desolation.

Ramrouser > calla.

 

[lawtig02]

What militarized department is that? All military departments report to trump.

I'm sincerely trying to figure out how you and I can communicate better with respect to your understanding of the questions you ask regarding my "support" for trump. For example, you claim (paraphrasing here) trump is destroying democracy and is going to turn the country into a fascist state. I have seen zero evidence of that. Yet, you have no problem with biden's revolving door immigration policy when a fundamental responsibility of a president is to secure our border. Given what they did, I could argue biden was destroying our democracy. His end-a-round the courts on student loan forgiveness was a pure trump like move. The left's hand picking kamala was anything but democracy. So I would ask you the same thing regarding your support for biden.

I voted for Biden in 2020 and I have no regrets whatsoever about that vote, given the alternative. Nobody had the opportunity to vote for Biden in November 2024.

If you don't see a difference between the US military, which reports through infinite chains of command, including the joint chiefs of staff, and is constrained by posse comitatus and other laws, and ICE, which reports through Tom Homan and Kristi Noem and is otherwise unconstrained except by the constitution which Trump has repeatedly shat upon, then I don't know what to tell you. And if you don't see a 350% increase in ICE's budget, which will allow an already heavily-militarized and politicized ICE to become Trump's personal army, as a massive threat to our democratic institutions, then, again, I don't know what to tell you. All I can say is you are whistling past the graveyard. I hope that's fun for you in the moment, because none of us will be spared when the chits are called.

 

[lawtig02]

Ramrouser > calla.

Goddammit. That's a call I never wanted to have to make.

 

[Callatoroy]

I voted for Biden in 2020 and I have no regrets whatsoever about that vote, given the alternative. Nobody had the opportunity to vote for Biden in November 2024.

If you don't see a difference between the US military, which reports through infinite chains of command, including the joint chiefs of staff, and is constrained by posse comitatus and other laws, and ICE, which reports through Tom Homan and Kristi Noem and is otherwise unconstrained except by the constitution which Trump has repeatedly shat upon, then I don't know what to tell you. And if you don't see a 350% increase in ICE's budget, which will allow an already heavily-militarized and politicized ICE to become Trump's personal army, as a massive threat to our democratic institutions, then, again, I don't know what to tell you. All I can say is you are whistling past the graveyard. I hope that's fun for you in the moment, because none of us will be spared when the chits are called.

Do you think it logical that it is going to cost more than normal to identify, find, and deport millions of illegal immigrants?
Since 2003 ICE has reported to SHD, before that to the DOJ (including under all D presidents). That is still the case today. Were you concerned about that then? How is that trump's private army only reporting to him? Aren't you just speculating regarding that? Do you have any evidence that trump is using ICE to destroy democracy? How has anything changed other than an increase in ICE's budget to perform a huge task?

I understand your rational for voting for biden in 20. That was exactly the same rational I used in voting for trump in 24. The most undemocratic thing maybe in the last 50 years was the way the left chose its candidate. That wasn't trump destroying democracy. That was your party throwing democracy out the window to do "whatever it takes" to defeat trump. Would love to know your thoughts on how that was handled.

 

[lawtig02]

Do you think it logical that it is going to cost more than normal to identify, find, and deport millions of illegal immigrants?
Since 2003 ICE has reported to SHD, before that to the DOJ (including under all D presidents). That is still the case today. Were you concerned about that then? How is that trump's private army only reporting to him? Aren't you just speculating regarding that? Do you have any evidence that trump is using ICE to destroy democracy? How has anything changed other than an increase in ICE's budget to perform a huge task?

I understand your rational for voting for biden in 20. That was exactly the same rational I used in voting for trump in 24. The most undemocratic thing maybe in the last 50 years was the way the left chose its candidate. That wasn't trump destroying democracy. That was your party throwing democracy out the window to do "whatever it takes" to defeat trump. Would love to know your thoughts on how that was handled.

Yes! I think ALL administrations have an obligation to make sure ICE operates with appropriate oversight and that its budget is limited to its absolutely necessary functions, which do not require a budget larger than the military of all but three nations. I'd be fucking LIVID if a Democratic president attempted to create a domestic army like the GOP has done with ICE. That would make me oppose any Democratic candidates who were in the same ideological zip code as the president and congressmen who approved such a thing.

So what's your excuse? Why are you ok with fascism just because the fascists are on your team?

 

[hedge]

The truth always lies in the middle of what you are being told and not being told.

How could anyone possibly know the truth about anything if it lies in the middle of things you're not being told?

 

[Callatoroy]

Good point. I didn't see anything about this guy in the Fox News article.

_____________________________________

Torres' husband, George Retes, is an Army veteran and U.S. citizen, and works as a security guard at Glass House Farms in the Camarillo area.

Retes' vehicle remains outside Glass House Farms, and his wife says she's called every law enforcement agency in the area, but nobody knows where her husband was taken.

"He really did try to leave, so I don't know what's going to happen from here. I really hope I get a phone call or something, because I'm getting torn apart. My kids are asking where their dad is. I keep having to lie, saying he's at work," Torres said.

Retes' daughter turns 3 years old on Saturday.

"He has a bad back, and he's disabled, and it clearly says it in the back of his car that he's a disabled veteran. This is how you're going to treat U.S. citizens?" said Destinee Magana, Retes' sister.

And what was left out of the ABC article?

 

[Callatoroy]

How could anyone possibly know the truth about anything if it lies in the middle of things you're not being told?

Not hard man. Read the articles.

 

[Callatoroy]

Yes! I think ALL administrations have an obligation to make sure ICE operates with appropriate oversight and that its budget is limited to its absolutely necessary functions, which do not require a budget larger than the military of all but three nations. I'd be fucking LIVID if a Democratic president attempted to create a domestic army like the GOP has done with ICE. That would make me oppose any Democratic candidates who were in the same ideological zip code as the president and congressmen who approved such a thing.

So what's your excuse? Why are you ok with fascism just because the fascists are on your team?

You didn't oppose biden's border mess but you oppose the clean up of the mess? That seems to be the root of your problem. You don't want the illegal immigrants deported. Even though trump told you what he was going to do a year in advance. The budget increase is justified given the enormity of the issue and it appears they are limited to necessary functions. Your "domestic army" is hyperbole with no basis in accuracy other than your opinion. Never forget, if joe had done his job rather than bending the knee to the far left of the party, we wouldn't have to clean up the mess and ICE's budget would still be $8 billion.

You guys have so overused and improperly used the word "fascist" It's taken the place of "racist" in the left's words of choice. I am absolutely not ok with fascism and don't see any fascists on my team.

 

[Bobfripp]

And what was left out of the ABC article?

That ABC article was about a single person and didn't cover the rest for that reason. I didn't get the sense they were intentionally leaving anything out.

BBC covered most of the same info as Fox news.

Minors among 200 suspected illegal immigrants detained at California marijuana farm

Clashes erupted outside Glass House farm on Thursday as protesters trying to stop the raid confronted federal agents.

www.bbc.com

"It's not clear where the juveniles are from, but Customs and Border Protection boss Rodney Scott said the youngest was aged 14."

14 years old? Ah, that's nothing. Sarah Huckabee-Sanders would be a-okay with child labor for those juveniles.

Loading…

www.npr.org

 

[Callatoroy]

Yes! I think ALL administrations have an obligation to make sure ICE operates with appropriate oversight and that its budget is limited to its absolutely necessary functions, which do not require a budget larger than the military of all but three nations. I'd be fucking LIVID if a Democratic president attempted to create a domestic army like the GOP has done with ICE. That would make me oppose any Democratic candidates who were in the same ideological zip code as the president and congressmen who approved such a thing.

So what's your excuse? Why are you ok with fascism just because the fascists are on your team?

"I understand your rational for voting for biden in 20. That was exactly the same rational I used in voting for trump in 24. The most undemocratic thing maybe in the last 50 years was the way the left chose its candidate. That wasn't trump destroying democracy. That was your party throwing democracy out the window to do "whatever it takes" to defeat trump. Would love to know your thoughts on how that was handled."

Any comments?

 

[lawtig02]

You didn't oppose biden's border mess but you oppose the clean up of the mess? That seems to be the root of your problem. You don't want the illegal immigrants deported. Even though trump told you what he was going to do a year in advance. The budget increase is justified given the enormity of the issue and it appears they are limited to necessary functions. Your "domestic army" is hyperbole with no basis in accuracy other than your opinion. Never forget, if joe had done his job rather than bending the knee to the far left of the party, we wouldn't have to clean up the mess and ICE's budget would still be $8 billion.

You guys have so overused and improperly used the word "fascist" It's taken the place of "racist" in the left's words of choice. I am absolutely not ok with fascism and don't see any fascists on my team.

I completely, 100%, supported the Biden/Lankford border bill that would have brought legal legitimacy to border control. I'm still pissed off Trump tanked it, throwing the ultra-conservative Senator Lankford under the bus, solely because Trump didn't want to give Biden a "win".

Are you?

 

[Callatoroy]

That ABC article was about a single person and didn't cover the rest for that reason. I didn't get the sense they were intentionally leaving anything out.

BBC covered all this too.

Minors among 200 suspected illegal immigrants detained at California marijuana farm

Clashes erupted outside Glass House farm on Thursday as protesters trying to stop the raid confronted federal agents.

www.bbc.com

"It's not clear where the juveniles are from, but Customs and Border Protection boss Rodney Scott said the youngest was aged 14."

14 years old? Ah, that's nothing. Sarah Huckabee-Sanders would be a-okay with child labor for those juveniles.

Loading…

www.npr.org

Unaccompanied minors working around criminals on a weed farm. Yea, no need at all to mention that.

 

[Bobfripp]

The most undemocratic thing maybe in the last 50 years was the way the left chose its candidate.

Oh come on Calla, Biden was the presumptive nominee, and yes, we're all aware now that he wasn't up to the task and his staff/family obfuscated. It stinks, I'm angry about it, but the incumbent POTUS always gets the nod for the nomination. Biden waited too late to drop out, and we all have to deal with the aftermath.

But the most undemocratic thing in the last 50 years!!! It's not even close to Trump and his supporters staging a near insurrection on Jan 6th 2021 and not accepting the results of the 2020 Presidential election. That is treason.

 

[lawtig02]

"I understand your rational for voting for biden in 20. That was exactly the same rational I used in voting for trump in 24. The most undemocratic thing maybe in the last 50 years was the way the left chose its candidate. That wasn't trump destroying democracy. That was your party throwing democracy out the window to do "whatever it takes" to defeat trump. Would love to know your thoughts on how that was handled."

Any comments?

I would have voted for literally any Dem candidate over the train wreck that is Trump, so I really don't care that much. I'm definitely pissed at Biden for running again. That was a major mistake on his part, and it's a large part of the reason the worst president in American history was somehow, inexplicably, elected for a second term, which has already surpassed his first term as the worst presidential term in American history. I don't see how the selection of Kamala impacts our democratic institutions, though. We still had a choice on November 6. One candidate was a flawed, but fundamentally decent, representative of America. The other was a narcissistic asshole who had already demonstrated, beyond any reasonable doubt, that he was completely unsuited to be the president of this great country.

Somehow, you managed to miss the memo.

 

[Bobfripp]

Unaccompanied minors working around criminals on a weed farm. Yea, no need at all to mention that.

Besides the one guy with a rap sheet, what criminals?

 

[Callatoroy]

I completely, 100%, supported the Biden/Lankford border bill that would have brought legal legitimacy to border control. I'm still pissed off Trump tanked it, throwing the ultra-conservative Senator Lankford under the bus, solely because Trump didn't want to give Biden a "win".

Are you?

If we are going to converse in good faith, it would be helpful not to play spin games. A bill isn't a good bill just because it was a bill. No matter who authored it. The bill didn't accomplish anything other than saying things are so bad now, maybe we can get it down to 5,000 per day. Apparently you were good with the border not being secured until 5,000 a day cross? Not me. I believe its possible to get it to almost zero. In any case, trump has shown that it can be accomplished and we don't need to wait on 5000 crossings before securing the border. So it seems as if trump was correct in getting it torpedoed. And yes, I absolutely believe trump didn't want to give biden a win because he knew he could do it quickly and we are all safer for it.