—> ICE / Immigration / Chaos after another shooting in Minnesota

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nycfan said:
The story says it rolled under the truck.

I would argue that is not merely an unfortunate accident because they were not making appropriate use of the munitions in the first place but were instead acting with indifference to the safety of civilians.

But having this roll under their vehicle versus in their vehicle is an important distinction (in terms of intent/targeting versus indifference/incompetence) if accurate.
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The story quotes the father and mother saying that flash bombs and tear gas were thrown INTO their van causing harm to their kids and their 6 month old.

Perhaps they were mistaken and the flash bombs rolled under the van ( distinction without a difference ) but I have not seen a report documenting that ICE agents rolled the flash bombs under the van endangering their children which required an ambulance taking them to be rushed to a hospital.
 
heelinhell said:
The story quotes the father and mother saying that flash bombs and tear gas were thrown INTO their van causing harm to their kids and their 6 month old.

Perhaps they were mistaken and the flash bombs rolled under the van ( distinction without a difference ) but I have not seen a report documenting that ICE agents rolled the flash bombs under the van endangering their children which required an ambulance taking them to be rushed to a hospital.
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“… “We were trying so hard to get out the way but didn’t want to harm anybody with our car in the process,” Jackson added. “One of the bombs rolled under our truck, and within seconds our truck lifted up off the ground, and the airbags deployed, the car doors locked themselves, and the car began to fill with the powerful tear gas. We fought hard to get the doors open and get all of the kids out. Bystanders had to help.”…
 
heelinhell said:
The family said otherwise. The family said that flash bombs and tear gas were thrown into their van.
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“We were trying so hard to get out the way but didn’t want to harm anybody with our car in the process,” Jackson added. “One of the bombs rolled under our truck, and within seconds our truck lifted up off the ground, and the airbags deployed, the car doors locked themselves, and the car began to fill with the powerful tear gas. We fought hard to get the doors open and get all of the kids out. Bystanders had to help.”
 
The family is quoted as saying both in the article - in one instance they said it was thrown in the car (“Officers threw flash bangs and tear gas in my car. I got six kids in the car,” Shawn Jackson told KMSP.) and in another instance they said one rolled under the car (“One of the bombs rolled under our truck, and within seconds our truck lifted up off the ground"). It's possible both are correct and there were multiple flash bangs/tear gas - one going under and one going in the car. Hard to know for sure.
 
TangledUpInBlue06 said:
Quoting the article for those in the back:

“They were innocent bystanders driving through what should have been a peaceful protest when things took a turn,” Destiny Jackson, the children’s mother, said.​
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Destiny Jackson said that US Immigration and Customs Enforcement(ICE) agents “began to start throwing tear gas bombs everywhere.”​
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“We were trying so hard to get out the way but didn’t want to harm anybody with our car in the process,” Jackson added. “One of the bombs rolled under our truck, and within seconds our truck lifted up off the ground, and the airbags deployed, the car doors locked themselves, and the car began to fill with the powerful tear gas. We fought hard to get the doors open and get all of the kids out. Bystanders had to help.”​
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Shawn Jackson told KMSP while holding up his child’s car seat: “This was flipped over. My car filled with tear gas; I’m trying to pull my kids from the car.”​
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Destiny Jackson said she performed CPR on the infant after the baby stopped breathing and lost consciousness.​
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Three of the children—the 6-month-old infant and two others, ages 7 and 11 years—were taken by ambulance to a local hospital for treatment.​
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“My kids were innocent, I was innocent, my husband was innocent, this shouldn’t have happened,” Destiny Jackson told KMSP. “We were just trying to go home.”​
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“This just shows how they don’t care,” Jackson said of the federal agents. “I was arguing with the officers to call the ambulance for five minutes... He knew there were [children] in the car; he didn’t even try and help.”​
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Evil and unAmerican. I’m glad to see the MAGAs who used to take issue earlier in the year when I said that stay silent now. I will take their silence as agreement.
Next step is for them to care about it. Then maybe they can join us in trying to do something about it.

Guys, we can have low taxes and comprehensive, bipartisan immigration policy without all of this authoritarian shit.
 
IMG_3837.jpeg

www.theguardian.com

Trump administration says detaining college student trying to surprise family was a ‘mistake’

Any Lucía López Belloza was detained at Boston’s airport in November and flown to Honduras two days later
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

“The Trump administration apologized in court for a “mistake” in the deportation of a Massachusetts college student who was detained trying to fly home to surprise her family in Texas for Thanksgiving.

But the administration still argued that the federal government error should not affect her immigration case.

Any Lucía López Belloza, a 19-year-old freshman at Babson College in Wellesley, 15 miles west of Boston, was detained at the city’s airport on 20 November and flown to Honduras two days later. Her sudden removal came despite an emergency court order on 21 November directing the government to keep her in Massachusetts or elsewhere in the United States for at least 72 hours for legal processes.

… López Belloza, whose family emigrated from Honduras to the US in 2014 when she was seven, is currently staying with grandparents and studying remotely. …In early December, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officers reportedly turned up at her parents’ home in Austin, Texas and behaved aggressively towards the family but left without taking further action.

At a federal court hearing on Tuesday of this week in Boston, the government argued the court lacks jurisdiction in the case because lawyers for López Belloza filed their action several hours after she was taken to Texas on the way out of the US in November. But the government also acknowledged it violated the judge’s order.…”
 
TangledUpInBlue06 said:
The family is quoted as saying both in the article - in one instance they said it was thrown in the car (“Officers threw flash bangs and tear gas in my car. I got six kids in the car,” Shawn Jackson told KMSP.) and in another instance they said one rolled under the car (“One of the bombs rolled under our truck, and within seconds our truck lifted up off the ground"). It's possible both are correct and there were multiple flash bangs/tear gas - one going under and one going in the car. Hard to know for sure.
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That is a possibility. It could be a case of flash bombs being thrown into the van and other flash bombs being rolled under the van.

With regard to intent, whether they rolled flash bombs under the van or into the van I think the intent was the same.
 
superrific said:
But that isn't what Abolish ICE means. The words mean "close the restaurant." What you are talking about is replacing ICE.

These fucking leftists have the same destruction fetish as Trump and they are going to fuck us over if we embrace their stupid jargons. Abolish ICE is the new "Defund the Police."

Maybe eventually they will learn that the public has an attention span of five words. That's how much time you get to make your case. You don't say "Abolish ICE, and here's what I mean by that." If you mean, replace ICE, then say replace ICE. And that is the only position that makes any sense. Abolish ICE is a recipe for losing elections.

I hope nobody on this board is stupid enough to indulge this idiotic rhetoric. I swear, one of the biggest causes of Trump is dumbass leftists with their "white privilege" and "defund the police" and "critical race studies" and "abolish ICE" and all this shit that scares people. And then these same people complain about how Dems message.

The problem on the liberal side of the spectrum is the same as the conservative one -- the radicals. Except Trump's radicals talk like ordinary Americans while saying things that are horrifying. Leftists say things that are good in language that
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dukeman92 said:
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Nick is just trying to get back in good with the MAGA crowd. And this is probably the right way to do it.
 
superrific said:
But that isn't what Abolish ICE means. The words mean "close the restaurant." What you are talking about is replacing ICE.

These fucking leftists have the same destruction fetish as Trump and they are going to fuck us over if we embrace their stupid jargons. Abolish ICE is the new "Defund the Police."

Maybe eventually they will learn that the public has an attention span of five words. That's how much time you get to make your case. You don't say "Abolish ICE, and here's what I mean by that." If you mean, replace ICE, then say replace ICE. And that is the only position that makes any sense. Abolish ICE is a recipe for losing elections.

I hope nobody on this board is stupid enough to indulge this idiotic rhetoric. I swear, one of the biggest causes of Trump is dumbass leftists with their "white privilege" and "defund the police" and "critical race studies" and "abolish ICE" and all this shit that scares people. And then these same people complain about how Dems message.

The problem on the liberal side of the spectrum is the same as the conservative one -- the radicals. Except Trump's radicals talk like ordinary Americans while saying things that are horrifying. Leftists say things that are good in language that is horrifying .
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ICE absolutely needs to be abolished, and now is the time to be saying it full-chestedly.

They are acting as a Nazi regime's Stasi. How pussyfooted does it sound to say that the Stasi doesn't need to be disbanded, just replaced with a nicer version?
 
akillesheel said:
ICE absolutely needs to be abolished, and now is the time to be saying it full-chestedly.

They are acting as a Nazi regime's Stasi. How pussyfooted does it sound to say that the Stasi doesn't need to be disbanded, just replaced with a nicer version?
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I understand the sentiment but have a hard time understanding why smart people fail to see the terrible optics. Dems lost big on the defund the police slogans. This is similarly dangerous territory in a time when Dems need maximum support.
 
pspsps said:
I understand the sentiment but have a hard time understanding why smart people fail to see the terrible optics. Dems lost big on the defund the police slogans. This is similarly dangerous territory in a time when Dems need maximum support.
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I think it is at least as likely that Dems lose on slogans like this because of their inability to commit to them as a part as it is that they are genuinely unpopular. whether it is defunding the police, transgender rights, medicare for all, or any other of the host of progressive legislation/policy that has majority support among the people of this country when it's not voting time and when it's presented to them by people who actually understand the stakes, the story continues to be that highly visible Dems try to soften or avoid the language and so end up looking weak-willed to their ostensible supporters, all while chasing a fantasy of converting centrists or republicans that simply isn't going to come true.

ICE is killing Americans. If Dems want to make hay on it, their response should meet the urgency of that situation. Anything less and they'll continue to look like a paper-thin opposition party that's not worth voting for.
 
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