—> ICE / Immigration / Chaos after ICE kills 37 y/o man

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rodoheel said:
Not sure I entirely agree. National public opinion still matters and is slowly shifting against the admin. "Escalating to match it" will turn off some of the exact people who are slowly turning against ICE and the admin.
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But the admin doesn’t care about public opinion.

Do sexual predators care that people think they’re predators?

If you are nice to a predator they’re still going to rape you whether you fight back or lie there. The admin is going escalate this (they already have) no matter what the response is. If Minneapolis went back to normal tomorrow morning and pretended like nothing happened, the admin would still escalate.
 
This is not exactly a new thought but I just feel so helpless that I am almost to the point of wanting to tune all of this out and just not look at the news for an extended period of time.

It just makes me feel so utterly demoralized and depressed. There’s just nothing I can do.
 
lightbluenc said:
But the admin doesn’t care about public opinion.

Do sexual predators care that people think they’re predators?

If you are nice to a predator they’re still going to rape you whether you fight back or lie there. The admin is going escalate this (they already have) no matter what the response is. If Minneapolis went back to normal tomorrow morning and pretended like nothing happened, the admin would still escalate.
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Actually Trump cares very deeply about public opinion, he is just constantly lied to about what public opinion is (and because of his own delusional self-belief and narcissism rejects all evidence to the contrary). And just because the rest of the administration constantly makes false claims about public opinion doesn't mean they don't care about it; in fact the whole point of them ceaselessly pretending like they have public support is because they know it matters.

But my point is not really that the admin cares about public opinion, but that public opinion provides a limiting factor on their actions and power whether they want it to or not. Republican lawmakers, for example, are still responsive to public opinion (especially those about to be up for reelection). So are business interests, including ones the admin does care about. The stock market reacts to public opinion, and Trump definitely cares about that. Members of the military are members of the public, and if you think the military is going to be deployed domestically in the US you damn sure should care what those people in the military think about all this.

If you believe (like the other poster I responded to does) that the only outcome of this is Civil War, I understand why you would think that counter-escalation is the right path. But for one thing, counter-escalation when you are the side the doesn't control the US military and risk alienating the people in that military from your cause is not a good strategy. For another, I respectfully disagree that Civil War is inevitable or absolutely necessary, so I don't agree with that framing. I still think things like midterm elections are important.
 
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Rock said:
This is not exactly a new thought but I just feel so helpless that I am almost to the point of wanting to tune all of this out and just not look at the news for an extended period of time.

It just makes me feel so utterly demoralized and depressed. There’s just nothing I can do.
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I understand that feeling but would humbly suggest you fight it. This is all bad and terrible and depressing but the US and the world have been in worse places than this before and come out the other side. The admin retreated from LA, Portland, and Chicago with their tails between their legs. The killings in Minneapolis (and the shootings elsewhere by ICE) are horrific and infuriating and tragic but what is happening pales in comparison to, say, the Kent State massacre and other domestic clashes over Vietnam, the Rodney King riots, the Civil Rights protests in Birmingham and elsewhere, etc.

The structure of the modern internet and modern mass media makes us all feel like all the news is bad and terrible and everything is getting worse. But not everything in the world is bad right now; we are not as close to societal collapse as some people think; and we are not doomed to a downward spiral of tragedy.
 
Rock said:
This is not exactly a new thought but I just feel so helpless that I am almost to the point of wanting to tune all of this out and just not look at the news for an extended period of time.

It just makes me feel so utterly demoralized and depressed. There’s just nothing I can do.
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Change feels impossible and then it feels inevitable.
 
That's an execution. He only confronted the ICE agent after he shoved a woman forcefully. He didn't do it aggressively, instead just got in between them. For his efforts he got pepper sprayed in the face and then dragged in the street to be beaten by 6 men. If you watch it closely he wasn't grabbing or fighting back, he was trying to get in the fetal position to cover his face/head from the blows he was receiving. Agents were pulling his legs and arms in different directions, then someone unloads a clip into him. Horrible.
 
lightbluenc said:
But the admin doesn’t care about public opinion.

Do sexual predators care that people think they’re predators?

If you are nice to a predator they’re still going to rape you whether you fight back or lie there. The admin is going escalate this (they already have) no matter what the response is. If Minneapolis went back to normal tomorrow morning and pretended like nothing happened, the admin would still escalate.
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I bet the admin cares very much about public opinion. They have been softening their language. Today he made one post trying to justify the guy getting shot. Trump has painted himself into a corner. If he leaves, he's weak for bowing down to the mob. If he stays, he loses more congressional seats. Don't really mind seeing him twist in the wind, but that's no picnic for people's civil liberties.

His caring about public opinion is why I think all this talk of never having another election again is nonsense. He could be much more brutal, and even start arresting the governors and the mayors if he didn't care about the next elections.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
I bet the admin cares very much about public opinion. They have been softening their language. Today he made one post trying to justify the guy getting shot. Trump has painted himself into a corner. If he leaves, he's weak for bowing down to the mob. If he stays, he loses more congressional seats. Don't really mind seeing him twist in the wind, but that's no picnic for people's civil liberties.

His caring about public opinion is why I think all this talk of never having another election again is nonsense. He could be much more brutal, and even start arresting the governors and the mayors if he didn't care about the next elections.
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Once he figures out how to rig the next election, then his caring about public opinion and the next election will cease. Then I bet he will be much more brutal.
 
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