—> ICE / Immigration / Chaos after ICE kills 37 y/o man

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Gain footing among whom, exactly? Which voters are you talking about? And what does ‘reform’ actually mean to them in practice?

Because for most voters, ‘reform ICE’ doesn’t describe a concrete outcome, it just sounds like what they’ve heard for years while nothing fundamentally changes.
We live in a country where Trump was elected. So just saying go in with abolish as the message and you are not going to win

Win first. Then do whatever to fix shit. But twist things whatever way we need to WIN
 
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Amazing how quickly so many ardent 2A supporters went from “shall NOT be infringed! Molon labe! 😡” to “yes daddy please take them 🥵
I think this country would have very strict gun laws and conservatives would have a very different interpretation if the second amendment if it was liberals who really loved guns.
 
We live in a country where Trump was elected. So just saying go in with abolish as the message and you are not going to win
So to you, Trump winning means voters are scared of clear language? To me it means they’re pissed. Pissed at institutions that have failed them for decades. And even people who voted for him in 2024 are souring fast on how immigration enforcement is actually being carried out, especially younger voters and Black and brown voters.

Also, I noticed you liked the post calling ICE’s actions fascistic. If that’s true, what’s the argument against abolishing it? How do you acknowledge that an agency is engaging in fascistic tactics and still argue it should continue to exist? And if you agree it should be abolished but think it needs to be messaged as reform, that’s the problem right there. People don’t trust Democrats to say what they mean or to mean what they say. It all reads as hedging. That’s a big reason Dems are in such a hole right now, especially with younger voters.

“Reform ICE” sounds like the same empty promise they’ve heard for years. Saying what you mean reads as honest. Hedging reads as dishonest.

The Democratic Party needs to stand the fuck up for what it believes and stop hiding behind an imagined middle that hasn’t existed for at least a decade. Democrats keep sanitizing their own conclusions out of fear of an audience that no longer exists.
 
So to you, Trump winning means voters are scared of clear language? To me it means they’re pissed. Pissed at institutions that have failed them for decades. And even people who voted for him in 2024 are souring fast on how immigration enforcement is actually being carried out, especially younger voters and Black and brown voters.

Also, I noticed you liked the post calling ICE’s actions fascistic. If that’s true, what’s the argument against abolishing it? How do you acknowledge that an agency is engaging in fascistic tactics and still argue it should continue to exist? And if you agree it should be abolished but think it needs to be messaged as reform, that’s the problem right there. People don’t trust Democrats to say what they mean or to mean what they say. It all reads as hedging. That’s a big reason Dems are in such a hole right now, especially with younger voters.

“Reform ICE” sounds like the same empty promise they’ve heard for years. Saying what you mean reads as honest. Hedging reads as dishonest.

The Democratic Party needs to stand the fuck up for what it believes and stop hiding behind an imagined middle that hasn’t existed for at least a decade. Democrats keep sanitizing their own conclusions out of fear of an audience that no longer exists.
People wanted ice to go and get illegal criminals. That's a fact. That's what they voted for... Not me but the polls showed it being very clear. So if that's what they were doing then I bet you the ice polling would be very different, even though I wish they didn't exist anywhere but airports and borders

So yeah you have to keep that in mind.

Sorry but go in with ABOLISH ICE (and the right will tack on AND OPEN BORDERS) and you won't win.

Also to hell with the younger voters who never come out to vote and yet bitch about things. Maybe if they actually voted in high numbers they could sway things.

But hey they are mad now cause they thought Trump cared at all about prices and cost of living and the employment issues


Democrats suck at messaging. I'm saying say whatever you need to say to get the votes to win, then blow it all up. But going in with left wing messages won't win general elections. The right is better at that game and Fox is still the most popular news outlet (gross)
 
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CNN has been asking who has control of Pretti’s video of events. Seems like it must be the Feds but they haven’t confirmed or denied and nothing has been released.
 
People wanted ice to go and get illegal criminals. That's a fact. That's what they voted for... Not me but the polls showed it being very clear. So if that's what they were doing then I bet you the ice polling would be very different, even though I wish they didn't exist anywhere but airports and borders

So yeah you have to keep that in mind.

Sorry but go in with ABOLISH ICE (and the right will tack on AND OPEN BORDERS) and you won't win.

Also to hell with the younger voters who never come out to vote and yet bitch about things. Maybe if they actually voted in high numbers they could sway things.

But hey they are mad now cause they thought Trump cared at all about prices and cost of living and the employment issues
This is the problem. You’re defending an institution you admit shouldn’t exist as it does, letting the right dictate what Democrats can say, and writing off younger voters instead of asking why they don’t trust us. That mindset hasn’t won us anything. In fact, it’s how we got here. I don’t think repeating it is a path out.
 
This is the problem. You’re defending an institution you admit shouldn’t exist as it does, letting the right dictate what Democrats can say, and writing off younger voters instead of asking why they don’t trust us. That mindset hasn’t won us anything. In fact, it’s how we got here. I don’t think repeating it is a path out.
“Shouldn’t exist as it does” sounds like the preamble to an argument in favor of reforming ICE.
 
Is it known that the ICE agent was carrying PRETTI'S gun?
Yes. If you look at the video, it appears to be pulled away by the agent in the grey coat. And when they say he was shot moments after, they mean it. Its less than a second between the agent getting the gun and the first shot.

I didn't hear them say it but someone on here who came up with the theory that someone yelled gun is not a bad guess.
 
Yes. If you look at the video, it appears to be pulled away by the agent in the grey coat. And when they say he was shot moments after, they mean it. Its less than a second between the agent getting the gun and the first shot.

I didn't hear them say it but someone on here who came up with the theory that someone yelled gun is not a bad guess.
And offers no extenuation.
 
Someone needs to remind Kash and Noem and every other enabler of Trump and the ice-proudboys what happened at the Nuremberg trials.
 
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