—> ICE / Immigration / Nation grapples with ICE killings

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Callatoroy said:
I tried repeatedly to ask simply if deportation was supported for people in this country illegally. For whatever reason, intentional obtuseness, ignorance, lack of understanding, miscommunication, dislike of me, or whatever else it may have been It was incredibly difficult to get a simple answer. My purpose is to understand if we disagree, where we disagree, and how much we disagree. That's it. Correct me if I'm wrong (and I could be as I'm going off of memory) but you said you supported deporting only those with violent criminal histories. Am I misremembering?

We hardly even got to the issue of tactics used. Which I did say I disagreed with. Hence my comment earlier about 90% agreement.
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I gave you simple and straightforward answers and you turned that into an accusation of wanting open borders and no enforcement.

I have said repeatedly that it is necessary to remove those with any criminal history beyond the immigration issues themselves or minor issues such as traffic citations.

I do not think it is worthwhile, smart, or useful to remove those who have demonstrated that they are meaningful contributors to society. That is, to me, defintional cutting off our noses to spite our face.

You are the one who takes that position and perverts it consistently into something I have never said.
 
pspsps said:
Your posting history makes your victimization complex laughable.
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There is nothing remotely resembling victimization in my post. You used the word cowardly. Being afraid to answer simple questions and having the convictions to state your belief is cowardly. Accusing someone of hatred on the basis of logical disagreement is cowardly. Someone is certainly playing the victim but it isn't me.
 
Callatoroy said:
You think its cruel to deport anyone here illegally? If I have misinterpreted your statement, please clarify.
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I think it is beyond cruel to terrorize anyone who has brown skin into hiding from ICE regardless of their legal status. That is precisely the result of these tactics and certainly appears to be the result that is desired by those carrying out enforcement.

I know PLENTY of American citizen children of all ages who cry daily about their fears of being abducted from school by ICE. We have educators on the verge of suicide from dealing with it daily.
 
Callatoroy said:
I fault any dismissal without the intellectual curiosity to verify it or the outright dismissal because of personal bias.
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You have to be fucking kidding me. You have yet to admit that overall crime rates go down when people enter the country and commit crimes at lower rates. Intellectual curiosity my ass.
 
Callatoroy said:
That's certainly 1 way to report it. For those readers that don't apply any critical thinking skills it leads them in a direction the source wanted them to go. If reported another way it possibly sends a different message to those people. If the reporter had written it by saying (using 400K as baseline of total deportations) so far the effort to deport illegal immigrants has resulted 84,800 violent illegal aliens deported, or 240,800 illegal aliens with criminal records deported, the narrative is seen differently. Of course this does nothing to address tactics used which is a completely different part of the issue. But that's not the way the media is telling the story because the media knows 90% of the public isn't going to apply those critical thinking skills.
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TO YOU the narrative is different. For the rest of us who can do basic arithmetic, this reframing does nothing. We can subtract two digit numbers from 100. Hell, we can also subtract two significant decimals from 1. Those are the same operation, by the way.
 
Callatoroy said:
There is nothing remotely resembling victimization in my post. You used the word cowardly. Being afraid to answer simple questions and having the convictions to state your belief is cowardly. Accusing someone of hatred on the basis of logical disagreement is cowardly. Someone is certainly playing the victim but it isn't me.
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Folks with real expertise and knowledge have debunked you and your “logical” positions so many times that an intractable learning disability must be the only charitable answer. The more logical answer is you are extremely biased and emotional.
 
wmheel1287 said:
I gave you simple and straightforward answers and you turned that into an accusation of wanting open borders and no enforcement.

I have said repeatedly that it is necessary to remove those with any criminal history beyond the immigration issues themselves or minor issues such as traffic citations.

I do not think it is worthwhile, smart, or useful to remove those who have demonstrated that they are meaningful contributors to society. That is, to me, defintional cutting off our noses to spite our face.

You are the one who takes that position and perverts it consistently into something I have never said.
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How do you then reconcile that with the concept of fairness?
Do you not think millions of people living here illegally given the housing crisis makes it worse for those here legally who struggle with affordable housing?
 
Callatoroy said:
It is part of the policy but absolutely seperate. You can change tactics without changing the policy of deportation.
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You miss my point. The current tactics are part of current policy. Of course you can change tactics. You can change policy too. If this administration said ICE will no longer wear masks nor will we seek warrant-less entry, those are both policy and tactics.You want to separate them so you can say the policy is good just the tactics are bad.
 
Callatoroy said:
How do you then reconcile that with the concept of fairness?
Do you not think millions of people living here illegally given the housing crisis makes it worse for those here legally who struggle with affordable housing?
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LOL. So we're on the "immigrants are causing affordability issues" now?? First, I've been told affordability is a scam, but I guess not.

But just curious if you have any data to back that up, or just repeating Trumpiot talking points, clown?
 
pspsps said:
Folks with real expertise and knowledge have debunked you and your “logical” positions so many times that an intractable learning disability must be the only charitable answer. The more logical answer is you are extremely biased and emotional.
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Whatever
 
LeoBloom said:
You miss my point. The current tactics are part of current policy. Of course you can change tactics. You can change policy too. If this administration said ICE will no longer wear masks nor will we seek warrant-less entry, those are both policy and tactics.You want to separate them so you can say the policy is good just the tactics are bad.
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Because I do see deportation as the right policy but the methods used to accomplish it as counterproductive.
 
Without undocumented workers affordabilty in Housing construction-all construction-won't be the problem
Because there will no construction at all
 
Anyone who disagrees with Trump’s deportation policy is either a liberal or a former republican president from the last 50 years.
 
Callatoroy said:
Because I do see deportation as the right policy but the methods used to accomplish it as counterproductive.
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Again though, we are talking about this administration. Their policy is what has been happening. Policy is not just a broad concept. Policy is also implementation. This administration has clear policies on how deportations should take place.
 
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