—> ICE / Immigration / Nation grapples with ICE killings

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ZenMode said:
I can look at the shooting and call it an execution. I can also say that carrying a gun to a protest and then resisting arrest/struggling with law enforcement, is not smart, regardless of how this would have turned out.
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He didn't resist arrest. He was pepper sprayed in the face, for no apparent reason. And then thrown to the ground, for no apparent reason. And then shot in the back and killed, for no apparent reason.
 
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Bobfripp said:
He didn't resist arrest. He was pepper sprayed in the face, for no apparent reason. And then thrown to the ground, for no apparent reason. And then shot in the back and killed, for no apparent reason.
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It's pretty clear that they were trying to get him onto the ground to detain him and he was not cooperating. That doesn't mean the shooting was justified, but he was clearly not cooperating. Even after several seconds of struggling, and at the point he was shot, he was still on his hands and knees and not face down on the ground.

Someone who truly wasn't resisting, would have been on their stomach at that point.
 
ZenMode said:
It's pretty clear that they were trying to get him onto the ground to detain him and he was not cooperating. That doesn't mean the shooting was justified, but he was clearly not cooperating. Even after several seconds of struggling, and at the point he was shot, he was still on his hands and knees and not face down on the ground.

Someone who truly wasn't resisting, would have been on their stomach at that point.
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Tread harder, daddy! Nice to see you here justifying ICE agents attacking a man who was simply filming them, beating him, pistol whipping him, and executing him after the crime of trying to assist a woman that they had brutalized.
 
Something to be remembered that seems to be left off of many considerations of this tragedy is that ICE had already executed one person quite prominently and there had been no repercussions, but rather the government had quite duplicitously defended the murder, whisking away the killer and covering up the injustice in multiple ways.

That's why a person might figure they would need to arm themself in fact...the high potential of renegade lawlessness from government agents, especially these masked semi-uniformed thugs, is now a fact of life across the country and a proven deadly one in Minneapolis.

What's the guarantee that complicity doesn't bode death, serious injury, or disappearance?
 
donbosco said:
Something to be remembered that seems to be left off of many considerations of this tragedy is that ICE had already executed one person quite prominently and there had been no repercussions, but rather the government had quite duplicitously defended the murder, whisking away the killer and covering up the injustice in multiple ways.

That's why a person might figure they would need to arm themself in fact...the high potential of renegade lawlessness from government agents, especially these masked semi-uniformed thugs, is now a fact of life across the country and a proven deadly one in Minneapolis.

What's the guarantee that complicity doesn't bode dead, serious injury, or disappearance?
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A few more of these one off murders for people to get used to, then they can start firing live ammo into crowds and then it will really be game on for the regime.
 
ZZLPHeels said:
Tread harder, daddy! Nice to see you here justifying ICE agents attacking a man who was simply filming them, beating him, pistol whipping him, and executing him after the crime of trying to assist a woman that they had brutalized.
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ICE was going after the woman and he was putting himself between them and her. Even when they're trying to pull him away from her, he's holding onto her and basically dragging her by what appears to be her shirt.

You can hate what ICE is doing. I dislike a lot of what I see police doing, but the time to express that is not when they're trying to detain you, especially when you're armed.

That's not justifying the shooting.
 
During my time in Guatemala, the heyday of The Death Squads, it was common wisdom that if you went to the ground, or if they ever got you on the ground, you were dead meat, that your chance of survival was greatly diminished.

These agents are our equivalent of Death Squads.
 
IMG_4214.jpeg

EXCEPT

I’m not sure if Trump I new too ally lying or fell victim to a bad AI news summary. I usually assume the former but maybe the AI confusing a concurring opinion with the ruling is to blame here? Because:


IMG_4213.jpeg


“A federal appeals court brushed back a secretive, emergency effort by the Justice Department to revive rejected arrest warrants for Don Lemon and four other people prosecutors say committed crimes by barging into a St. Paul church last weekend.

…In a series of previously unreported moves, the Trump administration rushed to demand that a federal judge overturn Micko’s refusal to charge the five others, then quickly escalated the fight to the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals after Minnesota’s chief district judge Patrick Schiltz declined to take immediate action, calling the gambit “unprecedented.”

Federal prosecutors raced to the 8th Circuit, asking the court to issue a rarely used “writ of mandamus” to force Schiltz to grant the government’s request.

Late Friday, a three-judge panel of the appeals court rejected the Trump administration’s demand. The panel included Obama appointee Jane Kelly and two Trump appointees, Steven Grasz and Jonathan Kobes.

Before the appeals court ruled, Schiltz — a George W. Bush appointee — sharply rebuked the Justice Department’s handling of the matter, saying the drive to seek additional arrests related to what he called “the church invasion” did not warrant an urgent response.

“There is absolutely no emergency,” Schiltz wrote….”
 
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ZenMode said:
ICE was going after the woman and he was putting himself between them and her. Even when they're trying to pull him away from her, he's holding onto her and basically dragging her by what appears to be her shirt.

You can hate what ICE is doing. I dislike a lot of what I see police doing, but the time to express that is not when they're trying to detain you, especially when you're armed.

That's not justifying the shooting.
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So why are you trying to justify it?

None of what you brought up justifies a threat worth shooting...and resisting getting slammed in your face isn't resisting arrest.
He did not brandish his weapon and it was removed if anyone saw it, so this makes no sense.

They have executed two Americans citizens on video for standing in their way and you are making excuses for them.
 
nycfan said:
IMG_4214.jpeg

EXCEPT

I’m not sure if Trump I new too ally lying or fell victim to a bad AI news summary. I usually assume the former but maybe the AI is to blame here? Because:


IMG_4213.jpeg


“A federal appeals court brushed back a secretive, emergency effort by the Justice Department to revive rejected arrest warrants for Don Lemon and four other people prosecutors say committed crimes by barging into a St. Paul church last weekend.

…
In a series of previously unreported moves, the Trump administration rushed to demand that a federal judge overturn Micko’s refusal to charge the five others, then quickly escalated the fight to the 8th Circuit Court of Appeals after Minnesota’s chief district judge Patrick Schiltz declined to take immediate action, calling the gambit “unprecedented.” Federal prosecutors raced to the 8th Circuit, asking the court to issue a rarely used “writ of mandamus” to force Schiltz to grant the government’s request.

Late Friday, a three-judge panel of the appeals court rejected the Trump administration’s demand. The panel included Obama appointee Jane Kelly and two Trump appointees, Steven Grasz and Jonathan Kobes.

Before the appeals court ruled, Schiltz — a George W. Bush appointee — sharply rebuked the Justice Department’s handling of the matter, saying the drive to seek additional arrests related to what he called “the church invasion” did not warrant an urgent response.

“There is absolutely no emergency,” Schiltz wrote….”
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“… “The government lumps all eight protestors together and says things that are true of some but not all of them,” the chief judge wrote. “Two of the five protestors were not protestors at all; instead, they were a journalist and his producer. There is no evidence that those two engaged in any criminal behavior or conspired to do so.”

…
In their ruling Friday, two of the 8th Circuit judges, Kelly and Kobes, offered no explanation for turning down the Trump administration’s request.

The third appeals judge, Grasz, issued a brief concurring opinion saying he believed there was “clearly” sufficient evidence to charge the five proposed defendants with crimes — but no immediate need for the appeals court to intervene.

“The Complaint and Affidavit clearly establish probable cause for all five arrest warrants, and while there is no discretion to refuse to issue an arrest warrant once probable cause for its issuance has been shown … the government has failed to establish that it has no other adequate means of obtaining the requested relief,” Grasz wrote.…”
 
thebruinbleedstarheelblue said:
So why are you trying to justify it?

None of what you brought up justifies a threat worth shooting...and resisting getting slammed in your face isn't resisting arrest.
He did not brandish his weapon and it was removed if anyone saw it, so this makes no sense.

They have executed two Americans citizens on video for standing in their way and you are making excuses for them.
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Two things can be true at the same time.
 
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