—> ICE / Immigration / Nation grapples with ICE killings

  • Thread starter Thread starter nycfan
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies: 6K
  • Views: 190K
  • Politics 
gtyellowjacket said:
I agree. I just don't see a real good way to research it. Even liberal counties that give less to charity, would presumably vote for a stronger social safety net paid for by their taxes.

But mostly, I'm very skeptical of a claim that liberals volunteer for charitable organizations more or less than liberals. I wonder where that claim came from.
Click to expand...
Fwiw, that economic status should include net worth and not just income. Old money (even just a couple of generations) will generally be more conservative and have higher reserves on hand. If you've inherited the family manse instead of building one, you have a bit more in terms of disposable income.
 
gtyellowjacket said:
Do you have a link to research on that? I have my doubts that there is any good way to study volunteer hours by political affiliation but when I volunteer at places like food banks, it's often overwhelmingly volunteers through church groups which would lean more right.

There is some good research out there that overwhelmingly conservative counties give more financially to charity than overwhelmingly liberal counties.
Click to expand...
I’ll try to dig it up, but I can’t remember what the sources were. From what I remember conservatives donate more and participate in church related charitable work more often, but liberals volunteer more to organizations that are independent of religious affiliation and support (and pay) higher tax rates.

My point was one of local, grassroots type organizing that predominant on the left versus the top-down organization of the right. I don’t think that’s controversial.
 
BlooVooDoo said:
I’ll try to dig it up, but I can’t remember what the sources were. From what I remember conservatives donate more and participate in church related charitable work more often, but liberals volunteer more to organizations that are independent of religious affiliation and support (and pay) higher tax rates.
Click to expand...
yeah, this is correct.

my wallet is always open as a progressive who is also church-going!
 
gtyellowjacket said:
Do you have a link to research on that? I have my doubts that there is any good way to study volunteer hours by political affiliation but when I volunteer at places like food banks, it's often overwhelmingly volunteers through church groups which would lean more right.

There is some good research out there that overwhelmingly conservative counties give more financially to charity than overwhelmingly liberal counties.
Click to expand...
Church groups who volunteer do not necessarily lean right. My wife's liberal churches do a lot of community events and assistance for the needy. The evangelical churches, not so much. That's an anecdote and not data, but when you look at the content of the services between the churches, when you look at the public positions the churches endorse -- it's not hard to imagine that the evangelical churches attract selfish people.

Anyway, the best research says that there are no real differences in giving magnitude between conservatives and liberals once you strip away tithing, which is often treated as charity but which is much, much more like a form of consumption. Tithes pay church salaries and facility costs. Just because you can often go into the church without giving doesn't mean the giving that occurs is charitable.

the main difference is that conservatives give to local causes and liberals more to global or international ones. Which is what one would expect. You can determine for yourself if that comments on selfishness. I do think it comments on self-centeredness
 
nycfan said:
Click to expand...

Evil and unAmerican. I’ve been saying this since this thread was started, and have made that comment on dozens of articles like this one posted showing the abuses.

It starts from the top with Trump. This is what happens when you put a madman megalomaniac in the most powerful position on earth.
 
Last edited:
Mulberry Heel said:
Their behavior and actions right after shooting these people - or seeing a fellow ICE agent shoot someone - gives them away. Calling them bitches just seconds after they were shot, laughing after a shooting, threatening people that they'll get the same treatment if they don't stop chanting or using whistles or whatever at protests, are not the signs of people who regret shooting someone, they're the signs of people who relish what's happening, have no respect for protestors or constitutional rights, and clearly enjoy throwing their power and force around to bully and intimidate others.
Click to expand...
One of the DHS officers was clapping after he saw Pretti shot.
 
ZenMode said:
There have been two shootings, both of which, even if you disagree with the use of lethal force, involved situations that either escalated quickly or involved a gun.

I see no reason to believe ICE officers, as a whole, "want" to shoot people.

If that were true, the ICE officers, by himself fighting a mob outside of a hotel, would have certainly ended in a shooting.
Click to expand...
One way to look at is your way - I.e., how may officers haven’t shot someone.

Another way to look at it is how Minneapolis PD explained it - I.e. his department went a whole year with thousands and thousands of arrests and no shootings.

Given that second stat, it seems to me that DHS officers are much, much more willing to shoot people.
 
nycfan said:
Click to expand...

“… Most of the incidents involve officers firing at drivers during enforcement stops in cities like Los Angeles and Chicago where DHS has surged federal immigration officers. At least 10 people have been struck by bullets — including four U.S. citizens. Three people have been killed.

None of the officers from Immigration and Customs Enforcement, U.S. Border Patrol or Homeland Security Investigations has faced criminal charges in any of the shootings, nor has the administration announced any internal disciplinary measures against them.…”
 

Alex Pretti broke rib in confrontation with federal agents a week before death, sources say​


ederal immigration officers have been collecting personal information about protesters and agitators in Minneapolis, sources told CNN – and had documented details about Alex Pretti before he was shot to death on Saturday.

It is unclear how Pretti first came to the attention of federal authorities, but sources told CNN that about a week before his death, he suffered a broken rib when a group of federal officers tackled him while he was protesting their attempt to detain other individuals.
 
altmin said:

Alex Pretti broke rib in confrontation with federal agents a week before death, sources say​


ederal immigration officers have been collecting personal information about protesters and agitators in Minneapolis, sources told CNN – and had documented details about Alex Pretti before he was shot to death on Saturday.

It is unclear how Pretti first came to the attention of federal authorities, but sources told CNN that about a week before his death, he suffered a broken rib when a group of federal officers tackled him while he was protesting their attempt to detain other individuals.
Click to expand...


DATABASE
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top