—> ICE / Immigration / Nation grapples with ICE killings

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Callatoroy said:
On the contrary, im full of compassion, empathy, and charity for people who do things the right way. Very little though for those who infringe on others’ opportunities for their own gain and those who enable them.
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So, you don’t support Trump? Because his administration is clearly targeting people who are 100% doing it the right way.
We have dozens of articles/examples on this thread detailing this administration infringing upon others’ opportunities (for example, people show up to their hearing as they are supposed to and getting arrested and deported).
 
takingAdookie said:
I get that and appreciate ya! I just don't see how standing up to them in this situation is very smart at all and surely not worth any life. I wouldnt want anybody I know to make that decision, but thats just me. Certain things I would, but not this bullshit where its not gonna matter at all. Just gotta beat em at the polls, homie.
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It already matters. Do you think the current backing down, firing Bovino and Noem, ICE popularity crumbling, would be happening without people standing up?
 
Callatoroy said:
My friend isnt a token. He’s one of thousands or ten thousands in the same predicament. That you see that example as a token shows me how emotionally stunted / unsophisticated you are.

I’ll tell you what’s morally bankrupt. You so desperately want it to come out that trump was screwing teenage girls because of TDS. You don’t give a damn about the victims. If you cared about victims you would have been opposed to the millions coming here illegally which bidens policies Invited and that led directly to untold thousands of women / girls being raped and kids molested.
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1. Your friend is not a token, I agree. Everyone knows your "friend" is a figment.
2. After all this time and you still do not understand math. Once again, the reality is: if a group entering the country has a lower crime rate than the natives, then the natives are safer because of the new group. That is just basic, elementary arithmetic.
 
ChileG said:
So, you don’t support Trump? Because his administration is clearly targeting people who are 100% doing it the right way.
We have dozens of articles/examples on this thread detailing this administration infringing upon others’ opportunities (for example, people show up to their hearing as they are supposed to and getting arrested and deported).
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For example, the woman who cleans our house is here legally via TPS (Temporary Protected Status) from El Salvador and works legally under an EAD (Employment Authorization Document.). She knows multiple people with the same status who were rounded up by ICE/CBP during their Charlotte sweep. Some were released but others have been disappeared, presumed to be either in custody or deported back to El Salvador where God knows what will happen to them. She is scared shitless.

They came here and qualified as refugees for a reason, and it ain't because they can make the big bucks cleaning other peoples' houses.
 
ZenMode said:
I think ICE, in general, isn't trying to de-escalate but the toxicity is definitely flowing both ways. Protesters cannot put their hands on ICE agents any more than they should with local police. The video posted on this thread shows Bovino saying "arrest anyone that touches you". That's fair, but it's not going to help the situation.

Video below is of Alex Pretti, 11 days before he was killed, spitting at/on ICE agents and the kicking out the tail light of the SUV they're driving. This happens as the ICE agent is trying to leave the situation.

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Of course, we do not have video here of what preceded this encounter, but it is clear that he spit at ( not on ) an agent and kicked out the tail light of an ICE vehicle as it was leaving the scene.

It is also clear that agents left the vehicle, chased him down as he fled ,and wrestled him to the ground.

What I don't know is whether the agents arrested him for kicking out the taillight and took him into custody for that violent crime. It appears they did not.

If they had just done their job and arrested him and incarcerated him for kicking out a taillight, then he would likely be alive today, so would you agree with me that ICE failed to do their job which indirectly led to his murder ?
 
heelinhell said:
Of course, we do not have video here of what preceded this encounter, but it is clear that he spit at ( not on ) an agent and kicked out the tail light of an ICE vehicle as it was leaving the scene.

It is also clear that agents left the vehicle, chased him down as he fled ,and wrestled him to the ground.

What I don't know is whether the agents arrested him for kicking out the taillight and took him into custody for that violent crime. It appears they did not.

If they had just done their job and arrested him and incarcerated him for kicking out a taillight, then he would likely be alive today, so would you agree with me that ICE failed to do their job which indirectly led to his murder ?
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Again, the agents have no jurisdiction to arrest for kicking out a taillight. I doubt they have any for spitting.
 
takingAdookie said:
I don't know what to believe anymore from any type of media.
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Your media frustration is shared by many here as well, but the idea that "all media sources are equally dubious" is simply untrue. Even in this modern world of media sludge, lies, and AI slop, you can still be informed if you choose to be. It just takes critical thinking skills and a bit of effort in checking multiple sources.

That said, and if you find it to be helpful, this is a wonderful tool to help you weed through the bullshit:


AdFontes is staffed by nonpartisan fact checkers, not driven by user-submitted ratings the way sites like mediabiasfactcheck.com are. You will have to create a free account to use the bias chart, but there is no charge and then you can use it (as I do) to fact-check stories.
 
superrific said:
Again, the agents have no jurisdiction to arrest for kicking out a taillight. I doubt they have any for spitting.
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So if the agents have no jurisdiction to arrest him for what he did, then what could possibly be the motivation for them to stop their vehicle, get out of the SUV, chase him down as he fled, manhandle him, wrestle him to the ground, get back in their vehicle, and leave the scene ?
 
heelinhell said:
Of course, we do not have video here of what preceded this encounter, but it is clear that he spit at ( not on ) an agent and kicked out the tail light of an ICE vehicle as it was leaving the scene.

It is also clear that agents left the vehicle, chased him down as he fled ,and wrestled him to the ground.

What I don't know is whether the agents arrested him for kicking out the taillight and took him into custody for that violent crime. It appears they did not.

If they had just done their job and arrested him and incarcerated him for kicking out a taillight, then he would likely be alive today, so would you agree with me that ICE failed to do their job which indirectly led to his murder ?
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I've no idea how things would have played out had he been arrested. Seems unlikely he'd be in jail for 11 days, but maybe an arrest would have changed his behavior at future protests. Who knows.
 
I've seen the video of Pretti spitting at ICE and kicking out the tail light. He lost his shit and acted out in a way he should not have. Because of that, my opinion of Pretti as a person is less than it was yesterday. HOWEVER, I still would not describe Pretti as a "domestic terrorist." And in no way did he deserve to be canceled for any of this. The ICE agents who shot him are absolutely at fault for murder, and they should be tried in a court of law.
 
heelinhell said:
So if the agents have no jurisdiction to arrest him for what he did, then what could possibly be the motivation for them to stop their vehicle, get out of the SUV, chase him down as he fled, manhandle him, wrestle him to the ground, get back in their vehicle, and leave the scene ?
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It's a mystery
 
BlueSteel said:
I've seen the video of Pretti spitting at ICE and kicking out the tail light. He lost his shit and acted out in a way he should not have. Because of that, my opinion of Pretti as a person is less than it was yesterday. HOWEVER, I still would not describe Pretti as a "domestic terrorist." And in no way did he deserve to be canceled for any of this. The ICE agents who shot him are absolutely at fault for murder, and they should be tried in a court of law.
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I have no idea what happenned before that video
Maybe the ICE nazis had just peppered sprayed some elementary school kids-I mean I have no idea
It does me "think" they decided to execute him after he kicked their damn Nazi mobile
Why is that not plausible?
 
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ZenMode said:
I've no idea how things would have played out had he been arrested. Seems unlikely he'd be in jail for 11 days, but maybe an arrest would have changed his behavior at future protests. Who knows.
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That was my thought exactly. Rough him up, wrestle him to the ground, handcuff him, arrest him, and haul his ass to jail.

I doubt he would have been incarcerated for 11 days but maybe it would have sent him in the message not to fuck around with ICE agents, and when he saw ICE agents roughing up and manhandling that person 11 days later, he would have the good sense not to intervene in order to care for them and risk being murdered.

So in the end, he would be to blame for not learning his lesson which is don't fuck with ICE. Alas, ICE failed to make him learn his lesson by not arresting him and having him change his behavior at future protests. You could say those ICE agents actually enabled his protest and caretaking behavior which led to his murder.
 
mpaer said:
I have no idea what happenned before that video
Maybe the ICE nazis had just peppered sprayed some elementary school kids-I mean I have no idea
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Regardless, he acted out in a way he should not have. But did he deserve to be murdered for it? Absolutely not.
 
ZenMode said:
I assume you mean "shouldn't".

ICE isn't seeking out protesters, protesters are seeking out ICE. When I say "In your face", I mean they are going into cities in the middle of the day, with a caravan of vehicles and doing nothing to keep their presence a secret as they did in the past. They're going into places that they may not have gone into previously, many of them in public.

The ridiculous social media antics of the Trump admin also don't help.
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Perhaps, if ICE were not all wearing masks then protesters would not have to get so close to take pictures.
 
mpaer said:
No-not necessarily
We don't know what happened before he kicked the car
Maybe they did something disguting and dangerous
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I couldn't care less about what happened before he kicked the car. My point is that he should not have kicked out the tail light. That was vandalism, which is a crime. Protesting and 1A doesn't give you the right to commit a crime.

My ultimate point, however, is that murder is still not a legal consequence for vandalism. The ICE agents who shot him must be tried for murder in a court of law.
 
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