—> ICE / Immigration / Nation grapples with ICE killings

  • Thread starter Thread starter nycfan
  • Start date Start date
  • Replies: 7K
  • Views: 199K
  • Politics 
BlueSteel said:
I could care less about what happened before he kicked the car. My point is that he should not have kicked out the tail light. That was vandalism, which is a crime. Protesting and 1A doesn't give you the right to commit a crime.
Click to expand...
This dovetails an earlier post, but if he committed a crime then why didn't they arrest him right there? Could it be they didn't want to have to explain other stuff they were doing at the time?
 
BlueSteel said:
I could care less about what happened before he kicked the car. My point is that he should not have kicked out the tail light. That was vandalism, which is a crime. Protesting and 1A doesn't give you the right to commit a crime.

My ultimate point, however, is that murder is still not a legal consequence for vandalism. The ICE agents who shot him must be tried for murder in a court of law.
Click to expand...
Well if they had just terrorized his neighbors it might be called self defense-not vandalism
 
BlueSmoke said:
This dovetails an earlier post, but if he committed a crime then why didn't they arrest him right there? Could it be they didn't want to have to explain other stuff they were doing at the time?
Click to expand...
I agree that law enforcement could have arrested him for vandalism at that point, but from what I've read here, it sounds like ICE does not have jurisdiction for that?

I'm only arguing that nothing Pretti did in any of these videos constitutes him being shot by ICE agents. The fact that he chose to commit vandalism was not a smart choice. [ETA: MAGA can spin it any way they want] But in no way was his subsequent murder justified.

What are we arguing about here?
 
Assuming it was previously posted that an ICE agent told a protester "You raise your voice, I erase your voice." So does that include whistles?
 
BlueSteel said:
I agree that law enforcement could have arrested him for vandalism at that point, but from what I've read here, it sounds like ICE does not have jurisdiction for that?

I'm only arguing that nothing Pretti did in any of these videos constitutes him being shot by ICE agents. The fact that he chose to commit vandalism was not a smart choice. But in no way was his subsequent murder justified.

What are we arguing about here?
Click to expand...
HIs vandalism might really have been standing up for his neighbors against a Nazi caravan Standing his Ground
Thats what
 
mpaer said:
HIs vandalism might really have been standing up for his neighbors against a Nazi caravan Standing his Ground
Thats what
Click to expand...
But it's still a crime. The second you commit a crime, you are no longer a peaceful protester. Nazi caravan or otherwise, it was not Pretti's place to administer retribution that breaks the law. I'm just being objective here.

If you're my buddy and someone steals your candy, it doesn't give me the right to "stand up for you" by physically assaulting the kid who stole your candy. I might morally feel like it's the right thing to do, but I'm still getting arrested for that if the kid presses charges.
 
korgguy1971 said:
Your media frustration is shared by many here as well, but the idea that "all media sources are equally dubious" is simply untrue. Even in this modern world of media sludge, lies, and AI slop, you can still be informed if you choose to be. It just takes critical thinking skills and a bit of effort in checking multiple sources.

That said, and if you find it to be helpful, this is a wonderful tool to help you weed through the bullshit:


AdFontes is staffed by nonpartisan fact checkers, not driven by user-submitted ratings the way sites like mediabiasfactcheck.com are. You will have to create a free account to use the bias chart, but there is no charge and then you can use it (as I do) to fact-check stories.
Click to expand...
Yep, I’ve referenced AdFontes on the board before. They’re the closest that exists as a standard for media-bias analysis.
 
BlueSteel said:
But it's still a crime. The second you commit a crime, you are no longer a peaceful protester. Nazi caravan or otherwise, it was not Pretti's place to administer retribution that breaks the law. I'm just being objective here.
Click to expand...
I understand BlueSteel
I just don't know what the Ice folks did to cause the reaction
 
heelinhell said:
That was my thought exactly. Rough him up, wrestle him to the ground, handcuff him, arrest him, and haul his ass to jail.

I doubt he would have been incarcerated for 11 days but maybe it would have sent him in the message not to fuck around with ICE agents, and when he saw ICE agents roughing up and manhandling that person 11 days later, he would have the good sense not to intervene in order to care for them and risk being murdered.

So in the end, he would be to blame for not learning his lesson which is don't fuck with ICE. Alas, ICE failed to make him learn his lesson by not arresting him and having him change his behavior at future protests. You could say those ICE agents actually enabled his protest and caretaking behavior which led to his murder.
Click to expand...
Well, in theory, local law enforcement should arrest him, but they were nowhere to be found.
 
BlueSteel said:
But it's still a crime. The second you commit a crime, you are no longer a peaceful protester.
Click to expand...
You might reconsider this one. As a wise man once said, writing from inside a jail, "Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that "an unjust law is no law at all.""

Literally the whole point of non-violent resistance, as Gandhi laid out, is to break the law.
 
ZenMode said:
Well, in theory, local law enforcement should arrest him, but they were nowhere to be found.
Click to expand...
That was probably because local law enforcement has been busy arresting actual violent illegals and transferring them to DHS ( see my earlier post and link )
 
takingAdookie said:
I'd fight over that, but not this, homie. Feel free to go to Minneapolis at any time no offense if you feel this is equal to Jim Crowesque
Click to expand...
Again. I appreciate your candor. i'm out here by the beach in Los Angeles and, while this is nasty, as passionate about the topic or approach as that....but people are.

I wasn't calling you out because there's not 300 million people out in the streets... just saying that while your position was understandable, other people feel differently and there's enough here that could bring about change.

I wasn't demonizing you... I'm just saying that those people aren't idiots and the type of passion they have is sometimes what's required in these moments.
 
www.rawstory.com

MAGA panel warns of 'mass graves' for conservatives to justify Trump's secret police

A panel of MAGA pundits on Real America's Voice warned that conservatives would face "mass graves" if President Donald Trump isn't given wide latitude to make Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers into his secret police force."I think part of what we're doing is we're looking at the world...
www.rawstory.com www.rawstory.com

A panel of MAGA pundits on Real America's Voice warned that conservatives would face "mass graves" if President Donald Trump isn't given wide latitude to make Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers into his secret police force.
 
evrheel said:
www.rawstory.com

MAGA panel warns of 'mass graves' for conservatives to justify Trump's secret police

A panel of MAGA pundits on Real America's Voice warned that conservatives would face "mass graves" if President Donald Trump isn't given wide latitude to make Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers into his secret police force."I think part of what we're doing is we're looking at the world...
www.rawstory.com www.rawstory.com

A panel of MAGA pundits on Real America's Voice warned that conservatives would face "mass graves" if President Donald Trump isn't given wide latitude to make Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers into his secret police force.
Click to expand...
every accusation is a confession. this is extremely chilling stuff.

democrats have never tried to subvert elections or ignore precedent to steal power in the fashion that we've seen from the republican party starting in 2016 with what should've been merrick garland's supreme court appointment.

going back a little further to 2010, citizens united was another republican initiative that was a scary bellwether for what was to come.

the threads that held our democracy together are in shreds.
 
Last edited:
superrific said:
You might reconsider this one. As a wise man once said, writing from inside a jail, "Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that "an unjust law is no law at all.""

Literally the whole point of non-violent resistance, as Gandhi laid out, is to break the law.
Click to expand...
Hey, it is a choice I guess.
 
4thgenheel said:
every accusation is a confession. this is extremely chilling stuff.

democrats have never tried to subvert elections or ignore precedent to steal power in the fashion that we've seen from the republican party starting in 2016 with what should've been merrick garland's supreme court appointment.

going back a little further to 2010, citizens united was another republican initiative that was a scary bellwether for what was to come.

the threads that held our democracy together are in shreds.
Click to expand...
Started with McConnell arrogating to himself a power not found in the constitution.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top