—> ICE / Immigration / Nation grapples with ICE killings

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Callatoroy said:
Just had a new roof put on a couple of weeks ago. I knew the owner of the company and asked him how it was affecting him. He said not at all because he saw it coming a few years ago and started e-verifing and has no problem getting legal labor. There isn't a shortage of legal immigrants to take the jobs of any illegal immigrants that may be deported in my area. Can't speak for other areas, but business won't stop. They will adapt. Any successful business owner knows that.
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You think that deporting 10 million people who make up a tiny portion of the housing demand will make a big difference on that side but won't make a big difference on housing supply where they make up a hugely outsized portion of the workforce?
 
wmheel1287 said:
You think that deporting 10 million people who make up a tiny portion of the housing demand will make a big difference on that side but won't make a big difference on housing supply where they make up a hugely outsized portion of the workforce?
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Of course he thinks that because he has been fed lies by Bessent, Vance, Trump and Fox saying exactly that. But anyone with half a brain and any knowledge of the housing industry knows that aggressive immigration enforcement efforts will kill housing starts while doing precious little to bring down housing demand.
 
Callatoroy said:
I see it as counterproductive because it makes the task at hand harder than it needs to be or impedes the goal. Yes, many mistakes have been made. A rational person with any perspective understands that the general public doesn't have all the details of what takes place in a given situation so why undertake measures that have the potential to backfire given that the media isn't likely to be on your side. Legally states and cities aren't required to assist ice so why not spend the necessary time to negotiate the cooperation needed to avoid the scenes that have played out. Has any of the chaos helped in achieving the goal? When people like me who support deporting those here illegally go "what the fuck are you doing", then you haven't managed anything to do with it well.

Cruel isn't a word I would use personally though I can understand how people opposed to deportations would go there. I have spent enough time in the business world to know that the vast majority of people want to do their jobs the right way. When they don't it is usually the fault of management which is what I perceive as the majority of the problems with ice. Wrong plan, wrong tone, wrong training, wrong leadership, etc. I'm sure there are a few rogue ice cops who get off on trying to inflict as much harm as possible but as with most jobs those are a very tiny fraction of people. I suspect that your concept of cruelty goes beyond individual cases and includes the intent to deport many of those here illegally.
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So it’s a wrong plan but it’s not wrong policy?

I think there are many people who are in favor of deportation yet think what the administration is doing is cruel.

My focus here was what I perceive as the cruelty of how ICE is carrying out the mandate of the administration. My characterization of cruelty, in this regard, is not about deportation itself.
 
Callatoroy said:
Sincere question - How do you reconcile that when faced with American citizens killed by illegal immigrants? Isn't there some consideration for those victims as well? RG and Pretti intentionally involved themselves in a chaotic situation. Pretti's family acknowledged they were fearful for his safety given his radical behavior leading up to his death. The families and victims of those killed by illegal immigrants didn't. That in no way justifies killing RG and Pretti but they are held to a different standard by the left than victims of illegal immigrant crimes. It's hard to argue tragedy on one side and not acknowledge the tragedy on the other.
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The illegal immigrants that murder people are arrested and tried for their crimes. The ICE agents that murder people are celebrated as heroes by the MAGATs.
 
Callatoroy said:
“While ICE law enforcement was being demonized at the Super Bowl, the heroic men and women of ICE continued risking their lives to arrest criminal illegal alien murderers, pedophiles and rapists from our communities," said McLaughlin.

According to DHS, among those arrested over Super Bowl weekend was Mario Rosales-Figueroa, an illegal alien from Mexico, who was arrested a few hours from the stadium in Visalia, California. The agency said Rosales-Figueroa was convicted of sex with a minor.

A few hours further away, DHS said that agents arrested Salvadoran illegal Luis Edenilson Ortiz-Lopez in Las Vegas. According to the agency, he was convicted of gross or open lewdness. Also in Nevada, ICE arrested Guillermo Arturo Ramirez-Londono, a Colombian illegal who is convicted of two counts of sexual assault on a minor under 14 years old in Lyon County.

In New York, ICE arrested Rudy Roa-Fuentes, an illegal from the Dominican Republic who was convicted of murder, and Anderson Mejia-Bonilla, from El Salvador, who was convicted of rape.”

“Not far from New York, ICE arrested Guatemalan national Eduardo Ramos-Domingo, who was convicted of aggravated assault, attempts to cause or cause bodily injury with a deadly weapon in Chambersburg, Pennsylvania.

In Wake County, North Carolina, ICE arrested Darwin Sorto-Pineda, from El Salvador, who was convicted of driving while impaired and assault on a government official.

In the Midwest, ICE arrested Wilson Perez-Guzman, from Guatemala, who was convicted for statutory sodomy/attempted statutory sodomy in Bridgeton, Missouri, and Tung Huy Nguyen, from Vietnam, who was convicted for gross sexual imposition in Steubenville, Ohio.

In the South, ICE arrested Mexican illegal Gustavo Alvarado-Sanchez, who is convicted for kidnapping and assault in Hidalgo, Texas, and Cuban illegal Carlos Manuel Legra-Ramirez, who is convicted for aggravated alien smuggling in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of Mississippi.

“According to McLaughlin, 70 percent of ICE arrests are of illegal aliens charged or convicted of a crime in the U.S. She said this statistic "doesn’t even include foreign fugitives, terrorists, and gang members who lack a rap sheet in the U.S."

She added that "this heated rhetoric about ICE law enforcement is leading to our officers facing a more than 1,300% increase in assaults against them."”
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Hey guys, look! Calla posted an article with quotes from DHS, because he's really good at knowing what to believe and what not to from the legacy media. And dealing with actual data. Thank god he's here. Of course the story has no actual DATA from DHS, just someone talking, but we should believe them, because you know, Calla is good and knowing what to believe and what not to.

Here, let me do the same thing:


So this is another article with just quotes. But it has no actual data. It does have very specific quotes about very specific cases. But this article actually points out there's no data, from DHS. But the quotes are from a judge, not data. The judge was appointed by Biden, so he's probably a trans immigrant, here to eat the cats and dogs and rule against everything Trump does. Or maybe he's following the law, I don't know, Calla will tell me I'm sure. He's a Tar Heel though, so maybe that helps.

But this judge is saying most people he's dealt with are in the US lawfully. And that ICE is clearly in violation of the constitution.

I dunno, I could believe some dipshit spokesperson from DHS, who has a vested interest in pushing propaganda, or I could believe a judge.

But, Calla will ask very fair questions about who should be deported, who is here legally, etc., because that's what he does, he's really good at it.

Go ahead and ask a "sincere question", because you're so rational.
 
Callatoroy said:
Would you classify yourself as a socialist then given your disdain for michael jordan, steven spielburg, and people like eddie smith jr.?
I was talking about fairness to those who want to come here for a better life, who are and have been trying the right way and didn't say "fuck it" to our laws. Those who didn't try to jump the line.

Common sense would tell you if 10 million people weren't here illegally that the supply of housing would increase which would affect affordability.
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If 10 million people weren’t here, the US economy would crater.

10 million people is A LOT of demand.

Those 10 million people are likely working. Take them out of blue collar jobs and see how well the economy is doing.

I know you’re going to say, “They’re takin’ our jerbs!” Which Americans are lining up to do farm labor, meat processing, or roofing?
 
Jetson said:
Hey guys, look! Calla posted an article with quotes from DHS, because he's really good at knowing what to believe and what not to from the legacy media. And dealing with actual data. Thank god he's here. Of course the story has no actual DATA from DHS, just someone talking, but we should believe them, because you know, Calla is good and knowing what to believe and what not to.

Here, let me do the same thing:


So this is another article with just quotes. But it has no actual data. It does have very specific quotes about very specific cases. But this article actually points out there's no data, from DHS. But the quotes are from a judge, not data. The judge was appointed by Biden, so he's probably a trans immigrant, here to eat the cats and dogs and rule against everything Trump does. Or maybe he's following the law, I don't know, Calla will tell me I'm sure. He's a Tar Heel though, so maybe that helps.

But this judge is saying most people he's dealt with are in the US lawfully. And that ICE is clearly in violation of the constitution.

I dunno, I could believe some dipshit spokesperson from DHS, who has a vested interest in pushing propaganda, or I could believe a judge.

But, Calla will ask very fair questions about who should be deported, who is here legally, etc., because that's what he does, he's really good at it.

Go ahead and ask a "sincere question", because you're so rational.
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That clown is drunk on the fox news kool-aid and has no idea and/or does not care how statistics work. He thinks because they fill up a “news” story with 7-8 vague mentions of convictions of non-whites, that it’s the tip of some murderous pedo-rapist iceberg. Wild guess here — on some disturbing level he needs that to be the case to justify his deep-seated feelings toward non-whites. This is how fox/right wing propaganda works — it’s not rocket science, and it’s sure not used on rocket scientists.

There is no iceberg, clown. Look at the numbers. Rupert Murdoch shoved that fake iceberg up your ass and you’ve been willingly spinning on it for years.
 
wmheel1287 said:
If fairness existed, 99% of those with 8 figure bank accounts would be executed in the street tomorrow
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Please describe the characteristics that would shield 1% of them from the fate of their financial brethren and sisthren…
 
4thgenheel said:
I kinda doubt that 99% of fortunes in the tens of millions were ill-gotten. hundreds of millions and billions.....different story.
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I ask you the same question. Are you saying that wealth beyond $100M is actual evidence of crime and scourge?
 
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hedge said:
I ask you the same question. Are you saying that wealth beyond $100M is actual evidence of crime and scourge?
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I would guess that most folks with wealth beyond 100 mil take advantage of a number of shady tax shelters and exert an oversized influence on government policy which allows them to maintain their wealth.

It’s not necessarily evidence of a crime.

It is, however, evidence of the corruption of our politics and tax policy.
 
Do you think that fairness dictates that these people should be executed in the street? Also still want to know what it is about a tiny fraction of them (1%) that allows them to remain alive and retain their wealth and freedom to do with it as they choose…
 
ChileG said:
I don’t think people are saying the mere deportation of illegal immigrants is cruel. At least I wouldn’t say that.
But much of what ICE and DHS is doing since Trump came into power is definitely cruel.
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Cruelty has been the primary tactic in this administration’s strategy to terrorize.

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