—> ICE / Immigration / Video from ICE shooter POV released, firestorm ensues

[nrsair]

There is a growing and palpable bloodlust and desire to see ideological opponents quite literally eradicated that should give us all extreme pause. It’s been a long time since the most meaningful divide in American political and cultural life was between “left” and “right.” It’s not even so much about “sane” vs. “insane” anymore, as it so often was circa 2020. The fundamental split today is between the *decent* and the *indecent.* It is monstrous to desire, excuse, sanitize, whitewash avoidable killing even of one’s perceived foes.

I’ve listened to this guy as a guest on various podcasts and he’s very smart, very measured and maintains an academic distance from current events. The fact that he’s posting anything remotely alarming is itself very alarming.

 

[ZenMode]

I do not think she was parked that way by accident, but ICE had a full lane to go by her if they wished to do so.

A full lane that, based on the video, was going on the wrong side of the road. The rear of her SUV was a good distance from the curb and parked traffic, and there wasn't much space in front of her.

 

[theel4life]

Yes, we know that the vehicle which she waved to go around her- in other words, was not trying to actively prevent from doing anything- was ICE; in fact, it contained the very agent who ended up ending her life.

But but but…. They will just come up with another excuse. But poor Ashley Babbit.

 

[HeelInTheOzarks]

There is nothing dumber than people who try to comb through shooting victims' histories in order to feel better about them dying. Or to have posters here spend pages talking about what the reason was for her car blocking the street, as if the agents had no recourse other than to murder her.

 

[dcphx]

The debate about whether Ms. Good was illegally parked or u turning is an intentional distraction by people who simply want to kill people they disagree with.

At least one person on this thread has pointed out that it was a one-way road, so there would be no reasonable basis to say that she was attempting to make a U turn or a 3 point turn. However, I'm not sure which street she was on, while Portland Ave does appear to be one-way s/b, E. 34th St. appears to have both east and west bound lanes (satellite photos show cars parked on both sides facing opposite directions). Almost certainly she was on Portland because the vehicle that her vehicle ultimately hit was on the opposite side of the street and she hit it in the trunk/rear.

Her vehicle pulled from the curb to perpendicular to the flow of traffic. She did not block the entire roadway, but her vehicle certainly was impeding traffic. While you could give the benefit of the doubt initially that she was turning or repositioning her vehicle, the longer video from a neighboring building shows she stopped in that position for 2+ minutes. The ICE vehicle with the shooter, actually drove to the curb side before stopping and there may have been other ICE vehicles that went by her in the other lane so there was a path for the ICE vehicles to go past her without initiating a confrontation. In fact, it appeared that the shooter did just that. He went around, stopped, got out and walked around her vehicle recording the situation and her license plate, likely to either record that information in ICE's system or to request local police issue a citation (or both). It appears that the shooter was about to leave when the silver pickup initiated the confrontation and everything went to hell in less than a minute.

 

[superrific]

A full lane that, based on the video, was going on the wrong side of the road. The rear of her SUV was a good distance from the curb and parked traffic, and there wasn't much space in front of her.

It does not matter. ICE's only recourse is to call local police. They cannot do traffic stops.

 

[WaynetheDrain]

Yeah. I do think it was very likely she was trying to block ICE although I guess it's possible she was trying to turn around and avoid a problem. I don't think she should have been killed for it but probably deserved to be arrested.

Deserved to be arrested? Are you fucking stupid? One officer asked her to leave as they were approaching her car and she tried to comply. Right before being shot in the face.

 

[nycfan]

I like venmo but never understood the feature of publicly telling whoever that I'm paying so and so for dinner or a soccer tournament or whatever. Makes no sense to me.

I think a lot of folks don’t really know that about it (it defaults to the public disclosure) but I agree

 

[superrific]

At least one person on this thread has pointed out that it was a one-way road, so there would be no reasonable basis to say that she was attempting to make a U turn or a 3 point turn.

Don't fall for the bait. It literally does not matter whether she was making a U turn or a 3 point turn or blocking the road or anything like that. ICE has no jurisdiction. None.

 

[superrific]

Do you think it was a coincidence that she was stopped perpendicular to the lane, where ice just happened to be driving, with her wife out of the vehicle recording on her camera?

Based on the video, I don't think she deserved to die, but let's not pretend that she was not out there intentionally trying to disrupt ice from getting to where they wanted to go.

It does not matter. Not one bit.

 

[nycfan]

The entire road? No. Was she intentionally blocking the lane where she saw ice driving or thought would be driving? Yes.

People don't park their vehicle perpendicular to the lanes by accident and without intent.

I agree with this but also don’t think that justifies almost anything that ICE did as a result, particularly not shooting into her car (much less killing her).

 

[pspsps]

At least one person on this thread has pointed out that it was a one-way road, so there would be no reasonable basis to say that she was attempting to make a U turn or a 3 point turn. However, I'm not sure which street she was on, while Portland Ave does appear to be one-way s/b, E. 34th St. appears to have both east and west bound lanes (satellite photos show cars parked on both sides facing opposite directions). Almost certainly she was on Portland because the vehicle that her vehicle ultimately hit was on the opposite side of the street and she hit it in the trunk/rear.

Her vehicle pulled from the curb to perpendicular to the flow of traffic. She did not block the entire roadway, but her vehicle certainly was impeding traffic. While you could give the benefit of the doubt initially that she was turning or repositioning her vehicle, the longer video from a neighboring building shows she stopped in that position for 2+ minutes. The ICE vehicle with the shooter, actually drove to the curb side before stopping and there may have been other ICE vehicles that went by her in the other lane so there was a path for the ICE vehicles to go past her without initiating a confrontation. In fact, it appeared that the shooter did just that. He went around, stopped, got out and walked around her vehicle recording the situation and her license plate, likely to either record that information in ICE's system or to request local police issue a citation (or both). It appears that the shooter was about to leave when the silver pickup initiated the confrontation and everything went to hell in less than a minute.

I think this level of engagement with the technicalities of traffic signs and whether she was illegally parked or not is problematic and I think you should avoid it.

 

[wmheel1287]

The videos where she is talking to her maga self are often pretty funny. In this case, I think she's wrong, though. Ice agents can detain a US citizen if that US citizen is interfering with their operations, which this woman was by blocking the road.

So, unfortunately, I suspect this will go the same way as every similar police shooting, which is to say that the ice agent will not be charged because his "life" was threatened.

By what statute?

 

[ZenMode]

It does not matter. ICE's only recourse is to call local police. They cannot do traffic stops.

From what I've read, ice is able to detain US citizens if they are interfering with operations.

ICE can detain citizens if they allegedly commit a crime, such as interfering with an immigration operation or assaulting officers. ProPublica’s list includes 130 people who were held for alleged infractions, though those cases “often wilted under scrutiny” and very few resulted in convictions.

Can ICE agents detain U.S. citizens? What powers do they have to arrest people? Your most common questions answered.

The agency has spearheaded President Trump's immigration crackdown and been at the center of some of its most controversial incidents.

www.yahoo.com

 

[nycfan]

Literally?

 

[CFordUNC]

Things that Republicans no longer believe in.

1. Limited government
2. Citizen rights to protect themselves from a tyrannical government
3. States’ rights
4. Free market capitalism
5. Independent banking system
6. Reducing the federal debt and deficit
7. Freedom of religion
8. The 19th amendment
9. No new wars
10. American soft power
11. Respect for the Judiciary
12. NATO

 

[pspsps]

Things that Republicans no longer believe in.

1. Limited government
2. Citizen rights to protect themselves from a tyrannical government
3. States’ rights
4. Free market capitalism
5. Independent banking system
6. Reducing the federal debt and deficit
7. Freedom of religion
8. The 19th amendment
9. No new wars
10. American soft power
11. Respect for the Judiciary
12. NATO

They never believed any of that.

 

[ZenMode]

By what statute?

This is the link:

8 CFR § 287.8 - Standards for enforcement activities.

www.law.cornell.edu

Provided in this article:

Can ICE agents detain U.S. citizens? What powers do they have to arrest people? Your most common questions answered.

The agency has spearheaded President Trump's immigration crackdown and been at the center of some of its most controversial incidents.

www.yahoo.com

That says:
ICE can detain citizens if they allegedly commit a crime, such as interfering with an immigration operation or assaulting officers. ProPublica’s list includes 130 people who were held for alleged infractions, though those cases “often wilted under scrutiny” and very few resulted in convictions.

 

[dcphx]

Don't fall for the bait. It literally does not matter whether she was making a U turn or a 3 point turn or blocking the road or anything like that. ICE has no jurisdiction. None.

I haven't said that they did.

It can both be true that the ICE officer murdered Ms. Good and that she placed herself into a dangerous position where a confrontation with ICE was possible or probable. She likely thought that so long as she didn't initiate violence, everything would be fine. It appears she was a good person (no pun) and good people don't envision how a certain subset of the population view violence as a perfectly acceptable even preferred option. The two ICE officers in the silver pickup were going to hurt her, they were going to pull her from her vehicle, throw her to the ground and put her into restraints. She was right to be afraid at that point and seek to flee. But for the shooting officer improperly putting himself into the zone of danger by standing in front of her vehicle, this would have ended differently.

If one of my friends was going to an ICE protest, I would caution them to be safe, to protest legally and to not give ICE an excuse to arrest or hurt them. Ms. Good didn't deserve to die and ICE should have just gone around her as they should have been trained to do so, but they didn't and it cost Ms. Good everything.

Although I hope that I am wrong, I think that in the long run this incident may be one of several incidents that kick off widespread violence that will cost many people their lives. We are on a path to widespread violence and the people in charge do not appear to want to deviate from that path, rather it appears that they relish the violence that will come.

It is both frightening and sad.

 

[nycfan]